[elmitchbo]

i totally understand. i posted a similar thread a day or so ago. second best hands kill me. i think what you're asking is what are the odds of winning with what you've got? i want to know the same thing.

there are all kinds of posts about odds of drawing out, and i understand all that. i can calculate my outs and come up with the pots odds for a call. what i want to know is the odds of winning with out improving, or in other words a 'no outs' calculation. what are the chances of me winning without improving my hand against someone elses draw? if the other guy has a flush draw, then he's got a 35% shot of making his hand. that means i'm 65% to win right? if i put one guy on a flush draw, and another guy on a straight draw, then what are my odds?

like the previous post... AA in the hole. when do you lay it down? top pair, top kicker? i lose with hands like that very often, and i don't know when to get out. you can't lat it down after the flop. if you stay in to the river it seems like you have som much in the pot it's worth on more bet to be sure you're not gettin bluffed.