[1800GAMBLER]

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'a turn bet will sometimes fold EP bettor'

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I don't believe this. The party 15/30 isn't THAT loose and even in that AK AQ AJ calls you down.

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'If the flop raise bumps the rest of the guys off, which it does a not insignificant amount of the time'

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That is true but it doesn't matter if the above is true.

Of course given the other benefits just having the possibility that hell, the raiser may have KQ and everyone else has Ax Kx (x = missed) low pocket pairs.

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'Sometimes you are going to blow AJ or KQ off of the pot'

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On the flop for one bet, never. That's the bet we are discussing here. The only times it applies to the turn is when everyone else folds and then i think it's unlikely KQ folds his gutshot or AJ folds.

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'You're also going to get people who would have turned a pair with a2c to fold many times when EP bettor is on total crap'

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These are both unlikely cases the chance 1. You have EP beat * 2. A player sees a flop with A2o hits pair then folds i think is very slim.

It's not that i disagree with the fold it's just that i was shocked with the follow up saying it's a 'very clear' raise and that cleaning up outs was the number 1 reason.