20-40 nuts
 

20-40 hold em. 3.5 per flop. Raises about 65-70 preflop.
I have QJ [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in MP and limp. Another MP, Button limp. SB completes and BB checks. BB is a very good player, tight/aggressive. SB is very weak, and will bet and raise with top or middle pair if he is the lead, no matter what. Button plays a variety of hands, calls too many post flop bets, and plays even worse when he's losing. He's losing.
Flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB calls, I call, hoping to keep the other two behind me in. MP folds and Button raises. SB three bets. BB cold calls. I cap it. All call.
Turn is 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB calls. Now I think to myself whether or not a raise here is smart. I figure that with the flop action, no one will fold to my raise, but I'm concerned that the button will make it 120, and SB and BB might fold. I don't want to just call though, because of the action on the flop, but on the flop, no one was subject to a 40 call, except the BB.
A raise here seems like a no brainer, but I'd still like to know what others think.

Re: 20-40 nuts
 

To not raise here would be full-blown retarded. I would probably raise the flop.

PokerPrince

Re: 20-40 nuts
 

I don't think I can say it better than Prince. This pot is getting huge. You have the nuts, and the second nut flush draw with an extra straight flush out. You just capped the flop in a 5 way pot and the sb bet into. It's possible that he has the same hand as you, but you have a redraw. There's really no reason to suspect he does, though, since you did a strange smooth call cap that is going to work in your favor since it now looks more like a flush draw . . if the button has two pair, and you don't raise here, it would be a crime against humanity. If he calls your raise with 2 pair, you're making money, and the sb three-bets you can four-bet. If the button has the nut flush draw, he's not going to raise now that so much strength has been shown, but you need to make him pay. Also, imagine how much of a chump you would feel like if a Q slid off and you chopped with the bb's JTo and the button's KJo. As a side note, I saw someone who fancies himself a dangerous player (and who may post here) in an online 15-30 game limp in EP with KQo. four took the flop of A J T rainbow. sb and bb checked, KQo checked, the button bet, all called. The turn was a blank, all checked to the button, who bet, the sb called and KQo JUST CALLED. The river was a blank, now KQo wakes up and bets, the button calle4d and the sb folded. When I saw his hand I almost peed my pants. . .

Re: 20-40 nuts
 

Raise, maybe youll get lucky and run into a 3bet, you may be splitting at this point but you are free-rolling

Re: 20-40 nuts
 

I'd have to say that if you did not raise here, you should consider giving up holdem. It's the perfect raising situation, as the flop action gives you fair indication that these players are married to their hands on the turn, whether they're on draws or whatever.

Look at it this way: say you smooth call. The button just calls. The river is a blank, checked to you, bet, fold, fold, call.

This scenario is very possible. Get the money in on the turn.

Re: 20-40 nuts
 

Not raising here would be a crime against humanity.

Re: 20-40 nuts
 

RAISE. Enough said.

Re: 20-40 nuts
 

20-40 hold em. 3.5 per flop. Raises about 65-70 preflop. I have QcJc in MP and limp.

If you're not likely to get more than one more limper, why limp? This looks like a raise or fold hand.

You flop the nuts with a redraw, and slowplay the flop with great success, trapping 3 players for 4 bets each.

Now the turn is a blank. There's a bettor and a caller to you. You're thinking about not raising with the nuts because the button might 3-bet? What would be bad about that? You would get to 4-bet the turn, and you don't lose the bets from the SB and BB if they fold.

Getting reraised when you have the nuts isn't bad. It's good, assuming the other guy doesn't have the nuts as well. If the button has the nuts too, you can't win much regardless of whether you call or raise if the flush doesn't come in. You'll only win half of what the SB and BB put in on the turn and river. The chances that he actually has the nuts are slim too.

Re: 20-40 nuts
 

bomblade,

The answer isn't as clear as everyone makes it out to be. If you have some kind of read on the button and are sure he is going to raise, a limp-reraise on the turn is the most profitable play. If the button caps, it's more likely you will get four bets from each of the blinds because at this point they're each in for two already. If the small blind 3-bets, you can cap and get 4 bets from two players (plus one from the big blind, assuming he folds). What makes you think the button is going to raise, though? Based on his flop raise/cold call, it certainly looks like he has clubs, J8 or 87. You and the small blind were really the ones driving the action on the flop.

Given that the button probably isn't going to raise, a raise on your part is clearly in order. The button will call the two cold because of the size of the pot, and hopefully the small blind will 3-bet, allowing you to cap. Sure, maybe you'll lose the big blind, but getting four bets from two other players (plus one from the big blind) is better than getting one bet from three.

Re: 20-40 nuts
 

The answer is, indeed, clear.

It would be impossible to know with sufficient certainty that the button was going to raise often enough to make limping correct here.

Smooth calling followed by the button failing to raise is a missed opportunity that will almost certainly cost you 3 big bets.

Thinking yourself out of these 3 big bets is just plain bad playing.