KK in a big pot
 

Button is a bit rocky, 16/4/0.9

I really wanted to fold to the turn raise here, most of the hands that a 16/4 will 3 bet with beat me at this point, but the pot was getting very big!

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(9 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

River: (14.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 17.25 BB.

Re: KK in a big pot
 

Can't fold the turn, you have an oesd! I don't really like the turn bet, I think you are in trouble to whatever button is 3betting you with pf, AA-QQ and maybe AK. You are losing to all of those, except KK. I would rather c/c the turn and hope to hit a 9 or an A on the river.

Re: KK in a big pot
 

Yup I have an OESD, but ony a 6-out one as the diamond outs are no good to me. I could also already be behind a made flush. I also split the pot with AK if I do hit the straight.

Mat

Re: KK in a big pot
 

The villian having AK part flew over my head, it looks like you are pretty f*ed in this hand

Re: KK in a big pot
 

Yea I call to, entirely because of my OESD other than that, it don't look to good against villains 3-betting range:

748 games 0.016 secs 46,750 games/sec

Board: Jd 6d Qc Td
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 15.8422 % 15.64% 00.20% { KhKs }
Hand 2: 84.1578 % 83.96% 00.20% { AA, QQ-TT, AKs }

I call the turn and fold UI.

Re: KK in a big pot
 

I'm folding on the river here.

Re: KK in a big pot
 

grunch:

like the plays on every street...youre probably beat but like you said the pot got very big. since the button is a passive player post flop, he probably has a strong made hand like KA. MP3 probably just had a queen with a drawing kicker. getting 15 to 1 you MUST call the river even if youre confident your drawing dead, so all in all i think you played this perfect

Re: KK in a big pot
 

Check/call the turn. There are no legit pf 3-betting hands you're ahead of. 3-betting ranges are usually fairly reasonable in general and this guy seems even more likely to have a tight 3-betting range (based on his stats so far) despite your MP open raise.

We don't want to pay 2 bets to see the river with our OESD unless it's going to increase our equity. Giving a free card to a diamond is the lesser evil -- Villain doesn't have a single diamond when he's behind unless he 3-bets AQo (possible given your MP open raise) or AJo or worse (seemingly unlikely) or a PP &lt; T (also seemingly unlikely).

What about a c/r? The other guy might have a diamond, but he's not folding a flush or big flush draw on a non-paired board even facing 2-cold. I can't see how we make up enough in increased equity to justify spending 2 (or 3) bets since Villain also also has to be diamond free. We could probably fold to a 3-bet since Villain is going to be uncomfortable 3-betting with less than a flush, but I still don't think a c/r is even close to better than a c/c unless the pot is way bigger.

Re: KK in a big pot
 

Given his stats, I would expect him to only 3-bet AA-JJ (he seems a bit tight to 3-bet TT) and AK. With few exceptions, I never fold KK in these games, but this would be one of those exceptions--especially considering villians AF and his river bet--I fold here.

Re: KK in a big pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
grunch:

like the plays on every street...youre probably beat but like you said the pot got very big. since the button is a passive player post flop, he probably has a strong made hand like KA. MP3 probably just had a queen with a drawing kicker. getting 15 to 1 you MUST call the river even if youre confident your drawing dead, so all in all i think you played this perfect

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling and knowing you will lose is really bad... no matter what odds you get. And what hand do you expect to beat here by calling? No way a call on the river is good here.