extracting value from strong draws
 

Reads: the SB had just sat down, the UTG and Button seemed fairly loose passive.

I generally like to bet and raise strong draws on the flop to win the pot if possible, maybe get a free card on the turn and disguise my hand if I hit. Given the pot size and my hand strength, is it better to just call and try to milk it?

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) converter

UTG ($24.55)
MP ($42.70)
Button ($49.55)
SB ($49.50)
BB (Hero) ($58.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $0.50, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero?

Re: extracting value from strong draws
 

bump. I'd be really interested in any comments, as I'm uncertain how best to play this sort of hand.

Re: extracting value from strong draws
 

i'd like a raise to the new pot size - juice up the pot since he's probably on a draw as well.

although an argument could be made just to call, because if you both his the draw then all the money will be in the middle anyways.

Re: extracting value from strong draws
 

At small stakes, where no one is laying down TPTK, I don't think you have much fold equity here. I call hoping to get callers behind and hit my draw cheap.

Re: extracting value from strong draws
 

Thanks for the replies. I raised to $5 and everyone folded. I've been kicking myself, but I guess a lot of the time this play works OK, and I can't be too upset at winning the pot given that I had K high and only one nut out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: extracting value from strong draws
 

I think the definition of a draw is you don't have a hand, but you hope to get one. Your draw may be strong or weak depending on the number of outs.

In the example you give I see a made str8 on the flop with a flush draw. So you want to draw to the second nut str8?

You're also on a second nut flush draw.

What else? Oh yes, you're facing a pot-sized bet.

What else? Oh yes, two players left to act behind you.

What else? Oh yes, you think if you make an OOP raise in the BB that when you check the turn everyone behind you will check because your powerful flop raise scared them into giving you a free card.

What else? Oh yes, should you just call and "try to milk it"? That's a new thought. IF you hit anything your second nut hand will be milking something?

Jeeeezzzz!

Re: extracting value from strong draws
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the replies. I raised to $5 and everyone folded. I've been kicking myself, but I guess a lot of the time this play works OK, and I can't be too upset at winning the pot given that I had K high and only one nut out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the best possible outcome. the highest EV scenario is where everyone folds.

Re: extracting value from strong draws
 

[ QUOTE ]
. Given the pot size and my hand strength, is it better to just call and try to milk it?


[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, it's not miliking if you do not have the best hand. All your on is a draw. Obviously some are stronger then others, but i would start building the pot here. Especially because SB is OOP he's probably going to have to have a very strong holding in order to take alot of pressure from you.

Re: extracting value from strong draws
 

Maybe I suck but I like putting in a nice raise on the flop. Taking it down there is fine with me. The problem with drawing cheaply on such a draw heavy board is that when you hit your hand is so obvious no one wants to call a bet so at least you have gotten them to put money in on the flop. Agression is good.

Are people telling me that wnen the 4th straight card hits or the flush card hits, and the player who flat called the flop bet now raises...others are going to call there with worse hands???

Re: extracting value from strong draws
 

I bump this to $5 on the flop. If we assume your flush draw is indeed good if you connect, and your straight will likely be good, then you have ~58% equity in the hand, if we count the K as 1 out too. It's a draw heavy flop and if I get any calls from behind me, then even if I connect on the turn, I proceed with a LOT of caution. If I'm re-raised by villian, I don't mind a push here either. He could easily have two pair, in which we're a coin flop. The only thing I'm really worried about here is a set or a made straight. Yet so many people at this level slooooowplay their strong made hands, even on draw heavy flops, that I wouldn't be too worried about this.

As it is you want to raise and isolate as this bet could mean anything from a weak hand like a 8x to a complete bluff. You are on a semi-bluff and taking down the pot without completing your hand isn't bad, while building the pot where you're likely the favorite is the goal of profitable poker. If the field folds and SB just calls, you're likely getting the free turn.