Trying to improve my river play #2
 

Here is an example of a thin river value bet where I get raised. Villian is very loose but properly aggro preflop. He seems slightly too aggro post, but haven't seen him get out of line yet. Not too many hands on him either.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG folds.

Flop: (7.40 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, BB folds.

Turn: (4.70 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls.

River: (6.70 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.70 BB


Should I b/c, c/c, or b/f the river? Is this a good spot to value bet in the first place?

Re: Trying to improve my river play #2
 

The river is a mandatory bet. Good for you. Calling and folding are probably pretty similar EV, perhaps slightly in favor of folding.

Re: Trying to improve my river play #2
 

getting 10:1 on the river i think we have to call but i aint happy about it.

Re: Trying to improve my river play #2
 

I could be offbase here, but I don't think this particular river bet is mandatory. In addition to the straight (which is unlikely given that it came runner-runner), it is really easy for a loose villain to have two pair on this board, since loose players will happily coldcall with stuff like KQo preflop.

Also, we know this villain is aggressive. Apparently, OP thinks villain is overly-aggressive enough that we have to pay off a raise. That changes things. Against a known passive, we could easily bet/fold the river, but betting is much riskier here if we think we have to pay off a raise.

I'd definitely value bet this against a passive opponent, but it's okay to forgo these sorts of value bets against aggressive, tricky, or solid players. This is just a little too thin for me.

Re: Trying to improve my river play #2
 

Against a "very loose" villain, I don't think we need to narrow his list of cold calling hands all that much. I suppose if he'll bluff a lot, I could see a c/c.

Re: Trying to improve my river play #2
 

Yes, I'm tempted to C-C this. He'll bet worse kings for you.

Re: Trying to improve my river play #2
 

If you think that the villian will bluff-raise this river, then you need to c/c. If not, then you need to bet/fold, because I don't think he's raising any one-pair hands here unless he's a nut or he's got your number.

Re: Trying to improve my river play #2
 

i really think B/F is best here, but it is a horrible, horrible board.

the C/C line on this board i think comes more from a pschological desire to showdown, rather than any actual analysis.

Re: Trying to improve my river play #2
 

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the C/C line on this board i think comes more from a pschological desire to showdown, rather than any actual analysis.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a typical LAG, careful analysis does show check-call to be the best line. Against most other players, bet-fold has a higher EV.

Re: Trying to improve my river play #2
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the C/C line on this board i think comes more from a pschological desire to showdown, rather than any actual analysis.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a typical LAG, careful analysis does show check-call to be the best line. Against most other players, bet-fold has a higher EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

id like to see that because i dont belive it.