Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

At a wild table, no good player reads. Everyone is active and aggressive. Alot of allins.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t15031)
UTG (t22050)
UTG+1 (t7175)
MP1 (t47163)
MP2 (t17774)
Hero (t18929)
Button (t9348)
SB (t12120)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls t600, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, MP2 calls t600, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to t5400</font>, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, BB calls t4800 , UTG folds, MP2 calls t4800.

Flop: (t16550) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](3 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero ?

Im confused here, didnt expect to get 2 callers. BBs call seems very strange.

Re: Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

your own read was that everyone was active and aggressive. I play this like i have the best hand right now and act accordingly. If you are behind, you have 4 outs for the boat, and i definitely wouldn't be giving my opponents the odds to draw out on me with their pocket 10's etc...

edit: if your up against AK, you may have only 2 outs.

Re: Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

Why put in over half of your stack in PF. Just push or limp to take a flop. Actually, pretty standard auto-push PF here. On the flop, you are getting all-in.

Re: Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

That pf raise is outrageous, how about raise to 3000-3500. You probably have the best hand and I would take it to the felt. I would bet 2/3 pot on the flop n probably call a push.

Re: Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

First of all, pre-flop raise was too much, even with two limpers. 3000 is about right, but no higher than 4000 if you are feeling timid (I advise against it). Moving on to the flop, since you described the table as crazy, it has been my experience on crazy stars tables that when they limp and a biiiiig pre-flop raise comes, their calling ranges are HUUUUUGE, 22-AA, any suited face card, any connector, or up to 3-gap suited connector. That might be a unnecessarily wide range, but in this case it doesn't matter because you'll notice that the only hands that are killing you at this point are J-10, AA, KK, QQ, or AK. With the exception of J-10, those other 4 hands are so strong that at a crazy table I would expect much more action pre-flop. So, I am really only worried about the J-10. This pot is huge and I have two pair; I think the only question is how much I wanna put out there... I have both Villians covered, so I'd probably push, because if one of them actually has the J-10 I'm screwed anyway. Think about it: if I put out say 5000-7500, and get check-raised all-in, I have to call just because of the odds. If someone calls my all-in on the flop with say A-7o or J-9 or something, I'm happy. If they both fold and I take the 16000, I'm happy.

So, PUSH! I would expect to lose about 20% of the time, maybe a little more.

-Gross

Re: Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

Crazy raiser preflop. How about 3xBB + 1BB/limper?

Doesnt commit so much of your stack preflop.

On that flop, I'm probably pushing. If you are afraid of AK at every turn, quit poker?

Nick

Re: Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, pre-flop raise was too much, even with two limpers. 3000 is about right, but no higher than 4000 if you are feeling timid (I advise against it). Moving on to the flop, since you described the table as crazy, it has been my experience on crazy stars tables that when they limp and a biiiiig pre-flop raise comes, their calling ranges are HUUUUUGE, 22-AA, any suited face card, any connector, or up to 3-gap suited connector. That might be a unnecessarily wide range, but in this case it doesn't matter because you'll notice that the only hands that are killing you at this point are J-10, AA, KK, QQ, or AK. With the exception of J-10, those other 4 hands are so strong that at a crazy table I would expect much more action pre-flop. So, I am really only worried about the J-10. This pot is huge and I have two pair; I think the only question is how much I wanna put out there... I have both Villians covered, so I'd probably push, because if one of them actually has the J-10 I'm screwed anyway. Think about it: if I put out say 5000-7500, and get check-raised all-in, I have to call just because of the odds. If someone calls my all-in on the flop with say A-7o or J-9 or something, I'm happy. If they both fold and I take the 16000, I'm happy.

So, PUSH! I would expect to lose about 20% of the time, maybe a little more.

-Gross

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your resoning, and I agree that my preflop raise was way to big.
I did push the flop but was close to checking it because I didnt like the BBs call. He hasnt been involved in any action yet but decides to call my monster raise, with two limpers to act. He must be ultradonkish to have anything els then AA-JJ and AK, or is that standard donk play?
I have been rather tight aswell.

Re: Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Crazy raiser preflop. How about 3xBB + 1BB/limper?

Doesnt commit so much of your stack preflop.

On that flop, I'm probably pushing. If you are afraid of AK at every turn, quit poker?

Nick

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not afraid, and I did push.
I understand that the preflop raise was bad, but it should atleast define my hand a little bit. It seemed weird to me that the BB calls without being involved. If only the limpers would call it would have been an easy push.

Re: Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

There are too many hands on that flop that have outs to beat you. There are also too many worse hands that will call your push. Just jam it.

And preflop is a bit over the top. Raising to 3k or 3500 tops should do the trick.

Everett

Re: Stars 11re&ad/AQ hand
 

Standard donk. Some limpers just HATE to be raised pre-flop, and if it is a BIG raise (i.e. it looks like a steal raise) they get stubborn and call. I have had hands like this come up very often. The times when someone is super-slowplaying aces or kings or queens, or called pre-flop with J-10, is outweighed by all the times K-7s (or 10-9, K-Q, A-10, etc.) calls pre-flop and on the flop. I've noticed when someone makes a donk raise pre-flop, it gathers the donks (maybe this could be +EV??? probably not...). Conversely, beware a known donk making a big raise pre-flop. They have the goods more often than you think (in my experience anyway).

Anywho, good job on pushing the flop. Did one of 'em have AA?

-Gross