77 with position against a TAG.
 

This hand was unpopular with brettbrettr. MP2 had the appearances of a a solid TAG over a small # of hands. My reads aren't great however since I'm a little distracted. The button, SB and BB were all loose.

The conventional ABC play here is to RR to isolate. While I do often RR here, I took a different line.

Couple of thoughts:
- I don't really mind the callers behind with a middle pair that can play well on a lot of flops and is great for set value in a crowd.

- I have great relative position to the raisor and I will likely get the button at any rate.

- The times I get capped by AK and smooth called by a big pair really hurt.

So I decided to just call this time and play poker post flop.

Party Poker Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: BigEndian is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 raises, BigEndian calls, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP2 bets, BigEndian raises...

Who hates this? Who says, "meh"? Who wants to have my children?

If you are so adamant with 3-betting PF, why is it better than my line? Bearing in mind of course that cash games aren't about the # of pots you win.

- Jim

Re: 77 with position against a TAG.
 

I like a 3 bet here for several reasons. One, it will probably get the hand hu which is conducive to a mid pocket pair. Secondly, you will get to see how villain reacts to a 3 bet, and this will greatly help you play out the hand. Also, it creates a bluffing opportunity; if your opponent holds a hand like 88 its gonna be real hard for him to call a bet on an a j 9 flop.

Re: 77 with position against a TAG.
 

I dislike it because we'll rarely get all of them to coldcall behind us, we really want to be either heads up or against a large field with this holding. I'm guessing on average 2 of them will call, which isn't really optimal. Also you don't get the blind's dead money much if you don't reraise.

Re: 77 with position against a TAG.
 

FWIW, not isolating here is a huge mistake.

If MP2 had just limped, I can see you limping behind. But when he open raises, your CC just allows the AT, KJ, T9s, etc hands in too easy. Those are the hands that will lead to your demise.

Good relative position to the PFR will not overcome your ability to dodge the middle cards on the flop.

Re: 77 with position against a TAG.
 

Hi Jim,

I personally like to 3-bet here preflop. Even with a loose button, small blind, and big blind, it would take a REALLY loose combination of players to call three bets cold. Isolation and position with a pair has great value in these spots.

Also note that even if the blinds were tight, a three-bet would still be good because remember your coldcall will fatten the pot enticing them to call with more hands.

What is the main purpose to coldcalling preflop? To do exactly what you did on the flop actually; raise the aggressor's flop bet to try to knock out the field. Note however, that you could have already done this by three-betting preflop and that it becomes MORE difficult to try to knock people off a hand once they've already seen a flop when you allow them in.

However, not three-betting is not a "huge" mistake as one poster mentioned. A "huge" mistake would be to fold, and if anything playing this hand gives you positive expectation, though I suspect not as great as three betting would have.

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Kailia

Re: 77 with position against a TAG.
 

[ QUOTE ]


If you are so adamant with 3-betting PF, why is it better than my line?
- Jim

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Jim,

It turns out that your line didn't seem to bad this time because you got a favorable flop. Without initiative preflop you're going to need favorable flops to play your hand well. 3 bet it preflop for all the reasons others have mentioned already. Also it can be good for Shania since some bad players (preflop fishies and weak tighties) think it's crazy to 3-bet your mid pocket pair preflop and they might think your a bit of a maniac and give you too much action later on.

-WT

Re: 77 with position against a TAG.
 

well, if there were several limpers in front of the MP2, I might see the reasoning for calling with 77, as we will be able to win big if we hit and have a nice big fat field to play with. Since it is opened from MP2, I really would rather three bet PF and take control of the hand. I also want to shut the button out and gain position for the rest of the hand on a late opener.

I like the flop play, but we now have a big pot going. What is our plan for the rest of the hand if a paint card hits. A cold caller is getting 5-1immediate on their coldcall, so that is enough to peel with overcards if the MP2 also is assured of coming along. I think this entire situation would'be been solved by three betting PF

Re: 77 with position against a TAG.
 

fold preflop IMO
You cannot be sure the passives left to act will play. Even 75%VPIP guys fold 1 in 4, more often to a raise. Set value is decreased. A good discussion on a somewhat similar type of hand is going on in HUSH right Cold-Calling small pairs

Re: 77 with position against a TAG.
 

I believe raising the flop is the correct play.

PS: Preflop: Raise or fold.

Re: 77 with position against a TAG.
 

This is a three-bet or fold preflop. Either he's so tight that you have to fold, or you reraise to isolate. If you had something like KQs, ATs, KJs, then fine, I don't mind the colodcall. But allowing a third player in with 77 is devastating to your preflop pot equity. So he's either tight enough that you have to fold, or he's not. There's no middle ground.

The raise on the flop is standard.

Will