average (Loose/Tight) miller SSHE starting charts???
 

was wondering if anyone has created a miller SSHE chart in between his tight and loose charts.

i find 3-5 average callers is tighter than most games out there, and 6-8 is looser. i'd say the average i see is 4.5 callers (including the blinds), maybe slightly higher.

i could certainly just chop the chart in the middle and i know it isn't that scientific. but i wonder if anyone (maybe even ed miller) had come up with an in-between chart.

right now, i am cataloging the differences between the loose and tight starting charts.... but as i said, i don't just want to take the mid-point (K9s vs. K2s - mid point = K6s) but i suppose it wouldn't be far off.

i guess it would make sense to play a little towards the loose chart especially with position. never hurts to see a few more flops with J9s or something. helps develop a somewhat loose image (if you opponents even notice)

Re: average (Loose/Tight) miller SSHE starting charts???
 

SSHE p.78

Again, you need not memorize these specific recommendations. The most important preflop sections are the conceptual ones; this one is designed just to get you started.

Re: average (Loose/Tight) miller SSHE starting charts???
 

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i find 3-5 average callers is tighter than most games out there, and 6-8 is looser. i'd say the average i see is 4.5 callers (including the blinds), maybe slightly higher.


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If you're seeing 4.5 or so callers, wouldn't that qualify as "3-5"?

I'm not really trying to be snarky but if you're playing online at any level 2/4 or higher, learn the tight chart and then, as I'm sure many people are going to tell you, study the text in the starting hand chapters in SSHE and other books and learn how and when to deviate from the chart.

Re: average (Loose/Tight) miller SSHE starting charts???
 

no 4.5 or 4.75 would qualify was right in the middle. i would assume the middle of 3 and 5 = 4... and what if i'm wrong and it's 5.1 average.

i mean, come on, has anyone seen a game with 8 average callers??? am i playing in the wrong places??

Re: average (Loose/Tight) miller SSHE starting charts???
 

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SSHE p.78

Again, you need not memorize these specific recommendations. The most important preflop sections are the conceptual ones; this one is designed just to get you started.

[/ QUOTE ]

did i say i was trying to memorize? i am just trying to get an idea where the differences would be biggest??

everyone says not to memorize and then i pretty much almost never see anyone playing close to these charts. i know all kinds of "experts" come on here and say we're 2plus2'ers and we're beating the world, but i'm a little skeptical ....

i agree it won't matter if you're off by one card rank but if you start moving away from it moderately then i don't think you are playing efficiently. i think these guys put alot of work into these charts and did alot of simulation work that i would guess less than 1% of

Re: average (Loose/Tight) miller SSHE starting charts???
 

You're missing the point, which is that if you understand WHY you raise/call/fold hands, a chart can only hold you back. To split a hair based on "4.5 to the flop" (and last time I looked, 4.5 was clearly between 3 and 5) shows little understanding of the theory of poker.

Relying on a chart while having neither a grasp of PF theory nor any real postflop skills is a newbie mistake. I've made it, others have too. But you've got the advantage of having this forum to slap you silly so that YOU can be spared that "learning experience."

Re: average (Loose/Tight) miller SSHE starting charts???
 

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i mean, come on, has anyone seen a game with 8 average callers??? am i playing in the wrong places??

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Live and at very low limits online. But especially live.

Online at 2/4 or better, you'll find very few games that don't fit into the 3-5 category.

Re: average (Loose/Tight) miller SSHE starting charts???
 

I think that you should continue to question all the charts you read.

What will happen soon is that you will no longer categorize these hands, but see them for their value. Many players have "favorite" hands and "hated" hands, this is when you begin your journer to PF mastery.

Re: average (Loose/Tight) miller SSHE starting charts???
 

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everyone says not to memorize and then i pretty much almost never see anyone playing close to these charts.

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Feel free to point out when people are deviating from the charts and ask them why they're doing it. Quite frankly, I don't see it all that often. If you follow the 3-5 chart exactly, your VPIP will be about 16%. If you deviate (read: iso-raise a donk) once in 5 rounds, then you'll be at about 18% which is considered roughly optimal for most of the folks in this forum.