KK, donkbet on fourth street...for the 2nd time!
 

Stars .25/.50...not really paying attention, just killing time while my sick kid takes a nap. Mostly researching my new toy, a 1969 Porsche 912 restoration project. Anyway, Villan may be loose passive, but not really enough hands to know for sure.

9 handed. I'm button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts.

Preflop: UTG calls, one fold, MP calls, another fold, LP calls, CO checks, I raise, the blinds and everybody but the CO calls.

Flop (6 players, 13SB): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB checks, BB bets, UTG calls, MP folds, LP calls, I raise, SB folds, the rest call.

Turn (4 players, 10.5BB): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img][7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
BB bets, UTG calls, Hero ?

He's donkbet me twice! I'm having a lot of trouble putting him on a hand, what do you think? What do you do?

My thoughts later...

Re: KK, donkbet on fourth street...for the 2nd time!
 

Maybe he's going for the donk-trifecta?

I'd pop him again on the turn, especially with UTG stuck in the middle.

Re: KK, donkbet on fourth street...for the 2nd time!
 

Did LP fold to the turn bet? It doesn't really matter, raise again for value. If he had a jack, wouldn't he either 3-bet the flop or c/r the turn? The board is draw heavy too, maybe he's trying his hand at the old stop n go. My guess is you're looking at an 8 with a straight draw from BB (I'll go with 98 to be specific), and a flush draw from UTG.

Another advantage of raising is you might be able to get a free showdown if the river card is nasty.

Re: KK, donkbet on fourth street...for the 2nd time!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Did LP fold to the turn bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I'm not used to this hand-converting thing. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

This is what I was curious about, tho. When he bet the flop, I figured him for a jack OR a spade draw, and when he didn't 3-bet the flop I said, "yep, spades." Then he bets out, again, bringing a jack back into play. Also, the fact that UTG is donking around makes me really nervous.

Anybody got a good argument for a turn call?

Re: KK, donkbet on fourth street...for the 2nd time!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Another advantage of raising is you might be able to get a free showdown if the river card is nasty.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this idea is a loser. He's already donkbet me twice...why no trifecta?

Re: KK, donkbet on fourth street...for the 2nd time!
 

Yes, the argument is you've got a pocket pair of Kings, which is not what he's figuring you for. So he could be donking with something you're beating. I think a lot of times the double donk is an OK hand on the flop that improves on the turn. That's why I was guessing 8 + straight draw. Something like pocket tens is possible too I'd think. Of course, so are pocket sevens, a jack, and a straight, but...

You're looking at 6:1 most likely to get to showdown, and you've got two king outs, and possibly two jack outs if you're against a straight. The king of spades gives you a boat at the same time it quite possibly gives UTG a flush, so your implied odds are pretty stout too. So even if you only call, I just can't get down with folding here.

And seriously, if we can stop and go, why can't our opponents? It's not like they need to know the precise theoretical reasons for it, they might just think you're FOS and decide "screw it, I'm betting again".

Also, for the record, it's not like I'm very good or anything, so I do appreciate it when people share their disagreement with me.

Re: KK, donkbet on fourth street...for the 2nd time!
 

BET BET BET BET

Result
 

So, to cap the thread:

Turn (4 players, 10.5BB): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img][7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
BB bets, UTG calls, LP folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls.

River (3 players, 16.5BB): J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img][K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
BB bets, UTG folds (miss your flush draw, much? too bad), Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Hero wins with kings full of jacks. BB mucks Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for three of a kind, jacks.

The sad part of this hand is, given that I really wasn't paying attention if he had 3-bet the flop and then led out the turn after I capped, I might well have figured out his hand and folded. Not to mention that if I hadn't caught one of my two outs on the river I would have just called. Slowplaying sucks.