KK...A flops, the usual
 

Loose table, i've been playing pretty good, but villian is unknown

Hero MP1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Preflop
I raise, Villian MP3 3-bets, I cap, he Calls

Flop 2 players 9.5 Sb
A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I bet, Villian raises, I call

Turn Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I check, Villian Bets, I fold

Re: KK...A flops, the usual
 

Not much else you can do in my opinion. The turn seems to have driven the nail even deeper in the coffin.

Re: KK...A flops, the usual
 

Why are we calling the raise on the flop, if we are going to showdown, we are getting the odds to spike the K on the turn

Re: KK...A flops, the usual
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are we calling the raise on the flop, if we are going to showdown, we are getting the odds to spike the K on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]
What?
please explain more

Re: KK...A flops, the usual
 

nice hand. I like peeling the flop in situations like this because there is a chance that a) we will spike a K on the turn and b) villian will check the turn behind and thus we still have the best hand.

Re: KK...A flops, the usual
 

ok i meant, are not, for both points above

Re: KK...A flops, the usual
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are we calling the raise on the flop, if we are going to showdown, we are getting the odds to spike the K on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]
What?
please explain more

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant we are not getting the odds to spike the K on the turn so why are we calling the flop raise?

Re: KK...A flops, the usual
 

[ QUOTE ]

I meant we are not getting the odds to spike the K on the turn so why are we calling the flop raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, we're getting 12.5 : 1 on the flop call and we're 23 : 1 against spiking a king, so if we call, planning to fold the turn UI, we have to count on earning more than 5 BB on the turn and river when we hit to profit from a call.

It shouldn't be a problem to extract at least 3 BB, and add to this the possibility that our hand is good. I'd say that calling isn't all that awful.

Also, it's OK to make a slightly loose call on the flop every now and then, so people won't try to run over you. Bet-folding frequently on the flop could encourage the more aggressive players to bluff-raise you.

Re: KK...A flops, the usual
 

I'd just fold the flop. He's checking behind on the turn like never here IMO and he'd need to do so fairly often to justify the major odds deficeit we're facing with a call.

Re: KK...A flops, the usual
 

Assuming villain is 3-betting you with 99+, AQ+, he could be jamming you on the flop with TT-KK hoping you don't have the Ace and trying to get to showdown cheaply.

But most likely he has the Ace.

I will usually peel the flop here if I know he is aggressive since:

a) I could be good.

b) I could have implied odds if I spike my set on the turn and he pays me off on the big streets.

c) I don't want him to take shots at me later so I want to at least make him show me he's serious enough to fire again on the turn. This sets me up to c/r him on a later hand when I've got the goods.

Once the turn Q comes you are only ahead of JJ, TT. If he's firing with those so be it, he wins. Only getting 9:2 to call down and YHING way more than that.