Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

First post. Great form, best on 2+2 for hand analysis and supportive replies.

Reads: Villains are all essentially lags, approx 30/5/1.5 each

So, can you fold two ladies here? I feel I’m leaking money in these situations but I just can’t fold. I was hoping to knock some players out on the flop with a check-raise, but nothing gave. Ideas?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, [color=#666666]3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, [color=#666666]2 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]SB raises</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, [color=#CC3333]UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](5 players)</font>
SB checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, [color=#CC3333]SB raises</font>, [color=#CC3333]Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG calls, MP3 calls, SB calls $7.25 (All-In).

River: (24.22 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] [color=#0000FF](4 players, 1 all-in)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, [color=#CC3333]MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Re: Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

I think you messed this one up pretty good. On the flop you should bet to get rid of aces, kings, and a variety of other hands you'd like to fold. You can't be sure a checkraise would work since you can't be sure where the bet will come from. As it played out all you did was trap players you wanted to get rid of.

As for the turn, I think you're 3-bet was pretty bad. I highly doubt that SB is checkraising anything here but a straight. Folding is probably the correct play although you could make a thin case for calling.

Edit: Now I see SB is all-in after the turn so the 3-bet isn't so bad, but betting the flop is a must. I like the river check since it'll give you a chance to fold if it's two back to you, but since it was only one bet I'd kick in the call too but expect to lose a majority of the time.

Re: Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

What line do you take if everyone calls the bet on the flop? Again, very likely behind, but it's a difficult fold to a bet, raise on the turn.

Re: Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

Gotta bet the flop. It will be hard to protect in this big of a pot, but conversely giving a free card would be awful since the pot is so big. You're not hoping that the Villains will make a bad flop call here, you're hoping they'll incorrectly fold a single overcard to your pair.

Re: Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

Bet the flop! You don't want to give a free card with this board. Turn is a bet / fold pretty often, if your read doesn't tell you otherwise.

Re: Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

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What line do you take if everyone calls the bet on the flop? Again, very likely behind, but it's a difficult fold to a bet, raise on the turn.

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I think you're overestimating how likely it is we're behind if everyone calls the flop bet. We're holding an overpair, and some very weak hands will be calling in this sized pot. I'd lead the turn regardless of the number of callers, and reevaluate if raised depending on who's in and who raised.

Re: Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

gut-wrenchingly awful flop check. you just 3-bet preflop, and now you're getting cute on this flop? the pot is huge, the board is semi-coordinated, just bet for value. you can' t protect your hand against legitimate draws anymore, you're likely ahead, and having this flop checked through would be horrendous.

and on the turn, bet for value.

and for god sakes value bet that river.

Re: Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

what?

Re: Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

you've got to stop, right this minute, with this line of thinking where "i bet with what seems like the best hand, when they call, i'm likely beat" is your analysis. it's weak, and you will lose money. this board is very coordinated. it's likely that people have some piece of it, or have overcards. some players just like to see the turn. and in this large pot for one bet they're probably not wrong to do so. even when the 8 falls, you're only behind to a 6... and what about your opponents make you think they've got a 6?

you lead the turn, and you're only folding if it goes raise, 3-bet behind you. and even then... it's close.

Re: Can you ditch the ladies here?
 

[ QUOTE ]
what?

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Fold to a raise that is. But don't listen to me, I've been playing against very predictable passives lately..