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Supern 11-01-2005 07:44 AM

Ciaffone Second Barrel
 
Ciaffone says in Improve your poker:
If you get called on the flop and a card of no consequence comes on fourth street, bet it.
An example is AK as a preflop raiser in position and no pair.

You raise preflop and get one caller.
You have two high cards.
He checks, you miss the flop and bet it and he calls.
I often give up on my bluff now.
I play low limits I must add.

What do you look for in deciding to bluff again on the turn?

Brad22 11-01-2005 11:01 AM

Re: Ciaffone Second Barrel
 
He mentions this comment in PL & NL Poker. The case is where you are playing against a player who calls bets on the flop far too often in nl hold'em. If a weak flop comes, and you bet it, this type of opponent will call alot - b/c they call too much, call with a weak draw, or just b/c they think they can try to take the pot away from you, etc. You then fire a second barrel on the turn, and the opponent will usually fold, assuming no helping cards hit the board.

Have not read IYP yet, but this was what Ciaffone was meant.

Supern 11-01-2005 11:27 AM

Re: Ciaffone Second Barrel
 
I think he meant limit. I remembered it like:
the odds for the second bluff is so good that you have to try it if the opponent aren't know to call all the way every time.

bobbyi 11-01-2005 01:44 PM

Re: Ciaffone Second Barrel
 
With position and only one opponent, in a low limit game, I would usually bet again on the turn and then check down the river. People will often peel the flop with a bad pair or a gutshot (which, unbeknownst to them has ten outs since their pair outs are good) and give up if you fire again. If he has a draw and calls, that's fine as your ace high is still the best hand. If you check behind, he may realize you have nothing and bluff the river if he has missed, putting you in an awkward spot. You would rather get to showdown your nut ace high on the river for free. If you happen to catch an ace or king on the river, you can bet again and win an extra bet compared to if you had taken the free card on the turn.

In a midlimit game it is tougher because you frequently get check-raised on the turn. This forces you to sometimes check the turn. Note that the threat of the check-raise provides a deterrent to an otherwise profitable play; this shows one reason that check-raising is an important part of your strategy.

benkahuna 11-01-2005 03:05 PM

Re: Ciaffone Second Barrel
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think he meant limit. I remembered it like:
the odds for the second bluff is so good that you have to try it if the opponent aren't know to call all the way every time.

[/ QUOTE ]

The second barrel comment was definitely mentioned in PL and NL holdem. I don't recall whether it was mentioned in IYP also.
In a low limit game, the second firing is difficult to use profitably. In midlimit, I think it's much more profitable and it's a major focus in Middle Limit Holdem in the turn play section. When no one else has shown any strength, Ciaffone and Brier have you fire again almost every time.

When pondering a second firing I consider a few things:

1. My opponent's playing tendencies. Does he just call everything? Does he slowplay? Is he as likely to call with any pair as with a flush draw, OESD, or single belly buster?
2. What's my position? Maybe I just want to take a free card.
3. How many players on the flop. It's foolish to try to bluff more than 2 other players out.
4. What's the likelihood my play will get everyone else to fold?
5. What's the board texture? Did anything change relative to the strength of my hand or my opponent's hand?
6. What's my table image? How are people likely responding to my play?


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