KK at crazy table
 

I got K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] in second position .50/1.

First guy to act calls, I raise, 3 others call from late position and the BB calls.

Flop 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](5 in there)

First guy to act bets out, I raise, one of the late position guys reraises me, a second cold calls 3 bets, first guy to act caps, I call as do the other 2.

Turn 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img](13 in there)

First guy to act bets out, I fold, one late position guy raises, the other folds, First position guy calls.

River 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](15 in there)

First guy to act checks, second guy bets, first position guy calls.

The first position guy shows 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Late Position guy shows A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

The guy in first position wins with a pair of 7's.

Ok I now I screwed up, just wondering how should I have played this?

Thanks

Re: KK at crazy table
 

You said crazy table. Was it just this hand? Other hands? Any particular maniacs? How did each villain play? What sorts of hands did they showdown? What did they bet and raise with?

Re: KK at crazy table
 

[ QUOTE ]
You said crazy table. Was it just this hand? Other hands? Any particular maniacs? How did each villain play? What sorts of hands did they showdown? What did they bet and raise with?

[/ QUOTE ]

They would call anything preflop, after the flop they were somewhat solid. I mean they did show me top set when I had second set, and a guy showed me a made inside straight he hit on the turn to crush my flopped two pair. So they were insane preflop, but once the flop hit they werent kidding around.

Re: KK at crazy table
 

That pot is to big to fold. You must see a showdown.

Re: KK at crazy table
 

Just because they're showing you good hands doesn't mean they're solid. Do these guys know how to fold? Any sense of their WtSD stats? Are they willing to call down bottom pair? Second pair? Raise with bottom pair? Ever played at a 2c/4c 2+2 table? How close was it to that?

Re: KK at crazy table
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just because they're showing you good hands doesn't mean they're solid. Do these guys know how to fold? Any sense of their WtSD stats? Are they willing to call down bottom pair? Second pair? Raise with bottom pair? Ever played at a 2c/4c 2+2 table? How close was it to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some did fold they werent that crazy, but yeah you are right, my fold was bad, its just that they kept showing me sets and straights, I guess that had something to do with my decision, wont do it again.

Re: KK at crazy table
 

Being able to answer the sorts of questions I was asking you is crucial to your success as a poker player. At a table I'd describe as "crazy," I'm not folding an overpair, and I'm probably raising the turn with it. Just because they're lucky doesn't mean they're not maniacs. If the table just woke up and went nuts on you after previously being as calm as a Hindu cow, then you could make a case for folding. Seeing the results, however, leads me to believe that you'd seen lots of maniacal behavior (or could have, had you been watching). In that case, this is a pretty bad fold.

Re: KK at crazy table
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just because they're showing you good hands doesn't mean they're solid. Do these guys know how to fold? Any sense of their WtSD stats? Are they willing to call down bottom pair? Second pair? Raise with bottom pair? Ever played at a 2c/4c 2+2 table? How close was it to that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some did fold they werent that crazy, but yeah you are right, my fold was bad, its just that they kept showing me sets and straights, I guess that had something to do with my decision, wont do it again.

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You also can't be thinking in terms of 'I'm beat, so I fold.' You'll almost always have outs against a variety of hands, so you have to analyze this as well, also taking into account the size of the pot and the texture of the board.

You're drawing dead against a flopped straight, and to two outs against a set. However, you have 8 outs against a flopped two pair, and you have good equity vs. FD/SD (plus pair) type hands with one card to come which may have capped the flop (likely given your description of the table), and a relative blank falling on the turn. I need to go through the math, but intuitively I'd rather raise than fold.

Re: KK at crazy table
 

Never fold such hand against maniacs. Yesterday it was full of them at my table, and they even 3 bet a High card ace.