Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

Hey guys, I've been playing shorthanded 10/20 limit games for a while now. I want to start learning no limit ring games. I have a couple of questions:

Does 2/4 or 3/6 sound about right to start out?

Should I start out with 100BB or play shorter while I'm learning? If so, how short.


Thanks.

Re: Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

SEARCH!!!

also you could probably find the answers to your questions (which have been asked 4 billion times) in the FAQ.

Re: Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, I've been playing shorthanded 10/20 limit games for a while now. I want to start learning no limit ring games. I have a couple of questions:

Does 2/4 or 3/6 sound about right to start out?

Should I start out with 100BB or play shorter while I'm learning? If so, how short.


Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. 2/4 or 3/6 does not sound right. Figure out what you want your NL bankroll to be say $1000, and start at $.10/.25 or $.25/.50. Move up and down as your bankroll allows for 10,000 hands or so. These stakes may seem boring to limit $10/20 player, but you have got to give yourself time to learn in a more forgiving environment. If you are crushing these games after 10,000 hands, you could re-invest in your bankroll and move up to NL100, NL200, or NL400. Be careful, however, that your foundation and principles in NL are very solid before moving up to these levels.

Disclaimer: my bankroll is $500 which I've worked up from $100 over this past year. My advice may be weak tight. It also may not be weak tight at all.

Re: Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

Do you think starting at the lower limits with 100BB would be better than starting out playing short at the middle limits? In terms of profit right now and to help me learn.

What do you think would be a good buyin for the middle limits? Bankroll isn't really a concern.

Thanks.

Re: Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

Honestly this is a whole new game and I would advise to start small. I dont know how much NL experience you have but if it is not a lot then the 100$ buy in games will be a place to start. You probably are gonna lose for a little while until the adjustments are made.. might as well do it at the 100$ buy in tables instead of the 600$ ones. I would not go lower than 100$ though, going lower might actually hurt more than help cause of the nonsensical play there.

Re: Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

IMO you should never buy in short. There are times that somoeone is gonna give you action when you flopped a set of kings against a smaller set .... and you will be kicking yourself that you did not take all his money because you bought in short.

Re: Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

[ QUOTE ]
IMO you should never buy in short. There are times that somoeone is gonna give you action when you flopped a set of kings against a smaller set .... and you will be kicking yourself that you did not take all his money because you bought in short.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about the times where he will over play his TPTK or an overpair on a rag board and lose his stack while learning? I think there are pros and cons of buying in short but when learning, just trying to point out the action isnt always good and there are advantages to buyin short especially early on.

Re: Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO you should never buy in short. There are times that somoeone is gonna give you action when you flopped a set of kings against a smaller set .... and you will be kicking yourself that you did not take all his money because you bought in short.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about the times where he will over play his TPTK or an overpair on a rag board and lose his stack while learning? I think there are pros and cons of buying in short but when learning, just trying to point out the action isnt always good and there are advantages to buyin short especially early on.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you buy in short you are limiting your exposure, thus not dealing with the pressure of possibly losing 100BB, or the pressure of large bets that are not part of limit holdem. Possibly losing 100BB in a hand is part of the game and something that needs to be learned. Best do it at a small table though. I agree there are pros and cons on both sides. I see a short buy in as a crutch that needs to be gotten rid of pretty quickly in order to progress in your game. Glad to see everyone agrees 2/4 or 3/6 is too high to start, even with a large bankroll.

Re: Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

I assume you want to play 6-max? I'd buy in full at the NL25 or NL50 games to start. The players at those levels are so passive and love to slowplay so much that you're not going to face a lot of tough decisions for your stack... sometimes those games feel almost like playing limit because half the players never bet more than the minimum. You don't need to spend long playing those games; anyone with solid fundamentals should easily beat the games. But it's nice to get your feet wet in the kiddy pool while you figure things out. If things are going well over 500-1000 hands you can move up.

Jumping into the 2/4 or 3/6 games would almost certainly be a mistake. There are plenty of players there that are just waiting to take pots away from you, and if you are not familiar with NL you may have a difficult time interpretting their bets correctly while also giving away information about your own hand. If you really insist on jumping into these games I'd buy in for perhaps 40bb and just play solid preflop/flop poker. With this strategy you will not have to worry much about letting go of TPTK or overpairs, and you can observe the other deep stacks playing against each other to develop your hand reading before you end up in those spots yourself.

Re: Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?
 

In defining your NL bankroll think in terms of buy-ins, not bb. Conventional wisdom around here is 20-25 buy-ins for level. I have experienced a variance of 12-15 buyins so you should make sure you are sufficiently rolled for whatever level you play.

If you were consistently beating the 10/20 games you should be able to handle NL $100. However, I would recommend that you start in the 25's or 50's to get comfortable with how the donks play so you can recognize and exploit it at the higher levels. Some players at the 200's (and I assume above) are good at looking like a donk as they are roping you in.

Read the FAQ sticky and look for posts that have responses from our resident experts (TheWorstPlayer, Ghazban, Amoeba, Subzero, Xorbie, AJMargaine). (Sorry if I left anyone out.) Edit -- add Isura to experts list (sorry dude)