Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

I get called over to table 5. Two guys at the showdown, or what appeared to be a showdown at first. I see a board with four clubs and two red kings face up in front of a player.

Dealer explains that Player A bet on the river. Player B then says "You got it man". Player A then tosses his cards at the muck. Player B THEN throws in the bet and says "His hand is dead - it's in the muck". At this point mayhem ensues and I'm called over.

Dealer tells me that "These two cards are Player A's cards". They are "in the muck", but clearly retrievable. I pull them out - QJ clubs. Player B has the two kings, of course.

How do you rule this one?

Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

Player A gets the pot.

Player B gets a warning and a kick in the nuts.

Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

I don't think Player B should get a warning. He should get a kick in the nuts and get tossed out the door, preferably landing on his head.

Player A gets the warning not to throw away his hand until the pot gets pushed to him.

Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

please say you got this right

Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

Player A gets the pot and a little lecture on how to protect his hand.

Player B gets kicked in the nuts, dragged by his nuts to the door, thrown out by his nuts, and then a bum outside kicks him in the nuts where he lands.
[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

Player A's cards are dead. Player B wins the hand.

A case could be made if he tossed his hand face up.

Some lessons cost some players a pot to learn.

b

Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

I'd like o amend my answer to add that any Nit who is at the table, not involved in the hand who opens there mouth to complain about the ruling that Player A gets the pot also gets a kick in the nuts.

Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Player A's cards are dead. Player B wins the hand.

A case could be made if he tossed his hand face up.

Some lessons cost some players a pot to learn.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

You are really wrong on this one bernie. There's no way b's angle shot takes the pot.

Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Player A's cards are dead. Player B wins the hand.

A case could be made if he tossed his hand face up.

Some lessons cost some players a pot to learn.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

You are really wrong on this one bernie. There's no way b's angle shot takes the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. It doesn't read that player B said his statement just so the other guy would toss his cards. Player A may not have even given him time to call. I see non-angle shooters say that line all the time just before they call. No one saw this guys hand until it was back out of the muck. Digging cards back out, even if only barely touching, isn't a good thing to start doing.

Some floors will make an exception if the guy can name his cards. That I can maybe buy into. But not just digging cards out of the muck and flipping them over.

Even so, protect your danm hand until the pot gets pushed. How tough is it to do that?

Here's a hand(I've posted it before)...

2 guys are left on the river, big pot. Player A tables his set of Qs. Player B excitedly stands up and tries to spike his hand in triumph. Well, one of his cards catches an edge and cartwheels off the table. Rule in the room is if your card touches the ground it's dead as is your hand. So the guys dead hand of a set of Ks loses. Pot goes to Player A.

b

Re: Cards in the muck - dead hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a hand(I've posted it before)...

2 guys are left on the river, big pot. Player A tables his set of Qs. Player B excitedly stands up and tries to spike his hand in triumph. Well, one of his cards catches an edge and cartwheels off the table. Rule in the room is if your card touches the ground it's dead as is your hand. So the guys dead hand of a set of Ks loses. Pot goes to Player A.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I believe that the player should lose just for being the kind of jackass that has stand up and spike his hand. Why do people think this is cool?