stud8 3rd street question
 

This hand came up in our home game last friday. It's probably basic stuff but since I'm new to stud8, I decided to post this. I think it looked something like this:
Stud Hi-Lo Split 0,40€/0,80€ Ante: 0,10€ Bring-in: 0,20€

Seat 1 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T folds
Seat 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8 Brings-in
Seat 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A folds
Seat 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q folds
Seat 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A calls
Seat 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 calls
Hero [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K calls

Now, I figured I could play this hand because of the duplicated aces but I'm not sure. I mean, if seat 5 has the aces, I'm far behind on this one and I'm dead on the other half. Completing is also an option. Should I just fire right away or wait and see how things develop? Folding is probably the safest way to play this hand but every time I have a close decision between calling and folding, I call because I don't want to have a reputation as the guy "who never plays a hand".

BTW, should I buy Zee's book to get basic things like this clear?

Thank you.
Rozez

Re: stud8 3rd street question
 

Def buy Zee's Book. It is a must. I would def not complete with the Kings. You have a hand that doesn't do well multi way, you want to be able to dump it if everyone catches well. If you are just starting out playing this game, though I would recomend folding in these situations. You're not really giving up a whole lot by folding this. These hands are very hard to play even for some med-good players.

Re: stud8 3rd street question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now, I figured I could play this hand because of the duplicated aces but I'm not sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read somewhere, prolly SS2 or Zee (I think SS2) but Im not sure, that if there are two A doorcards, the probablilty of one of the players having split aces is actually higher than if only one A door and that player having split aces. However you have a little extra information in this hand seeing one A fold and the other limp. So that would suggest that neither player in this hand has split As.

So in this hand, you probably have the best hi hand at the moment, however if you had to act before the two A doors, this is a pretty easy fold imo.

Aicirt

Re: stud8 3rd street question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I read somewhere, prolly SS2 or Zee (I think SS2) but Im not sure...

[/ QUOTE ]

The two A doorcard analysis is in Todd Brunson's hi-lo section of SS2.

Re: stud8 3rd street question
 

Yeah, Zee covers stuff like this. If either of the Aces had raised, you would have to fold and not look back. Since the other guy didn't raise, presumably he doesn't have Aces. I would call and see what fourth street brings.

Re: stud8 3rd street question
 

[ QUOTE ]


I read somewhere, prolly SS2 or Zee (I think SS2) but Im not sure, that if there are two A doorcards, the probablilty of one of the players having split aces is actually higher than if only one A door and that player having split aces.

Aicirt

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you give some math to back it up? I've never heard of this concept [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Rozez

Re: stud8 3rd street question
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I read somewhere, prolly SS2 or Zee (I think SS2) but Im not sure, that if there are two A doorcards, the probablilty of one of the players having split aces is actually higher than if only one A door and that player having split aces.

Aicirt

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you give some math to back it up? I've never heard of this concept [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Rozez

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot right now because I dont have my copy of SS2 with me, and Id probably make a mistake if I tried to do it myself from scratch. When I get home tonight Ill show the math if nobody else gets to it before me.

Aicirt

Re: stud8 3rd street question
 

I'm not a math major but I guess it makes sense. With two door aces out and you not having any aces, that leaves 42 unseen cards, two of which are aces.

The two hands with door aces have 4 other cards which could be aces, so the odds are:
2/42 + 2/41 + 2/40 + 2/39 = .198 or about 20%

With only one door ace out that leave 42 unseen cards, THREE of which could be aces. The hand with the door ace has two other cards that could be an ace, thus:

3/42 + 3/41 = .145 or about 15%

So the when there are two aces out, the odds of split aces being present is greater than when only one ace is out.

Re: stud8 3rd street question
 

Ok, after reflecting on this for awhile I think it really makes sense after all. Thank you for making the effort of putting the numbers in there [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Rozez.

Re: stud8 3rd street question
 

look at whats out that you need. you lost a ten.
look at the high ratio of high cards out to low. now you are against three low cards. they are going to be catching lots of low cards throughout the hand. do you really want to be in there.
if the game is pretty tight you may want to come as you can get it headup on fourth street. otherwise pick a better spot. good luck.