Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

I know preflop and flop are bad, but I think I got the turn right.

$3/$6 Texas Hold'em (6 max)

Dealt to Hero [ A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ]
utg folds, hero calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB checks

Flop (5sb) [ J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ] (5 players)
4 checks, button bets, all call except for CO. (I know this is a loose call I should not have made.)

Turn (4.5bb) [ J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ] (4 players)
3 checks, buttons bets, 2 calls, hero raises...

Re: Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

I'd rather wait until I hit to raise. Also you 6 outs are questionable since it gives an 8 a str8 as well. Last, if you know preflop and flop are bad, why did you do it? Adjusting from full-ring?

WiteKnite

Re: Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Last, if you know preflop and flop are bad, why did you do it? Adjusting from full-ring?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mental lapse. I think I was in the middle of two other hands.

Re: Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

Gotcha. Anyway, while ther might be a small amount of value if everyone calls, that won't always happen.

WiteKnite

Re: Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

If everyone calls you need 12 outs to make it profitable now. You may only have 9. You cut your implied odds if you hit because button probably won't bet the river.

Re: Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know preflop and flop are bad, but I think I got the turn right.


[/ QUOTE ]5way for one bet? hey, PF looking kinda alright.
flop call is quite horrible...

Re: Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Last, if you know preflop and flop are bad, why did you do it? Adjusting from full-ring?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mental lapse. I think I was in the middle of two other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Admit it, you were air drumming.

Re: Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Last, if you know preflop and flop are bad, why did you do it? Adjusting from full-ring?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mental lapse. I think I was in the middle of two other hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know if this has anything to do with it, but if you are coming from full ring games, maybe you shouldn't be playing as many tables until you get all the basics down. That being said, fold the flop.

Re: Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

This is exactly how a poker player compounds mistakes. In my experience, I have found or caught myself making mistakes, not so blatant as this one, but I am sure when my experience was less it must have happened. The problem is that you realize you have made the mistake, so now the next step should be: I need to play this hand the best that I know how, so as to not compound the mistake. I am curious why the flop call? If you are aware of the mistake or misclick preflop, it sounds like your your concern with the turn raise should not be the center of your discussion, but more along the lines of correcting a play or big leak that comes up often so you dont find yourself in these tough decisions. As for the turn check raise, I dont like because your not going to get any one with a pair of J's to fold. By making this play, you should be thinking if I bet I think these players will fold or if I bet my hands is worth seeing a showdown so I need to protect it. I dont think there is any value in any of the two scenerios happening. So your turn check raise was in vain. If you are trying to adjust from full ring game, congrats on trying to improve. How many tables were you playing in the full ring game? how many are you trying to play in 6 max? I beat the 3-6 full game for about 6 months playing 6 tables at 2.25 BB. I switched to 6 max and dropped down to 2 tables or even one for a few thousand just to insure that I am understanding and getting used to the speed and different plays. Hopefully this gives you some advice.

Re: Flush draw + OESD, raise turn for value?
 

You have other things to concentrate on than whether to raise this turn! If you are multi tabling and find yourself limping this type of hand, you should cut back on tables or maybe just bash your head into the monitor a few times.

Yes you should fold the flop.

No, you souldn't raise the turn!