Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

Situation #1. Am at a table, and two guys (semi tight/aggro, decent players), are about to leave. The table is 7 handed, and I really don;t want to play 5 handed. I call a floorman over, ask him to put a plug on a seat on the open seat on the good table I've been keeping my eye on as this table is going to break. He says sure, i get back to my game. Table breaks, i go over, there is no plug there. Another floor man says we are going to draw cards for it, I try to explain to him the situation. He blows me off, we draw cards, I lose. Any other way to better go about it?
#2. Continuation of the first situation. As soon as we are done drawing cards (I got a 9, winner got a J, other guy got a 4), another seat opens up at the good table. I point this out to the floorman who says, 'well, the other guy got a ten, didn't he?' The guy hears it, and is like "yeah, i got a ten, i got a ten" I look straight at him, calmly say "No, you got a 4". He curses me out, challenges me to go to the cameras. I shake my head and walk away realizing that the guy isn't going to back down and the time and ordeal for them to review the cameras would be a waste of time. After that, umm, gentleman, takes his seat, I pull the floor man to the side and calmly explain what just happened and I want to know what they are going to do to rectify it. He asked me why I didn't tell him this earlier, I said I did, but he didn't listen.
#3. After waiting 20 minutes for a seat to open up, i get a seat at the rock garden. Well there are 2-3 soft spots, its a tough table for 5/10. I ask the floorman to let me know when another seat opens. One player is playing particularly agressive, open raising whenever he is in late position. I tried to iso-raise him once, but I had a loose BB who wouldn't let go of his marginal hand. One hand he is 3 bet by the player to my left, i muck, the hand goes down to showdown. Aggro asked the 3 better, "what do you have" after checking. He said a pair of queens, aggro mucks his cards. There was no bet on the river. I ask the dealer if I can see his cards, he quickly shoves them into the muck before the dealer gets a chance to. I ask the aggro player "don't a dick about it, it went to showdown, I have the right to see your cards". He said "You call me down, you can see my cards". I didn't want to make a scene about it, so I did not call the floor. However, in future situations, should I call the floor if the dealer does nothing to rectify this?

Re: Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

Geez, I forgot how despicable some live players can be. I think you handled yourself respectfully FWIW.

Edited to add, I was talking about the situation where you were dealing with the liar.

Re: Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Situation #1. Am at a table, and two guys (semi tight/aggro, decent players), are about to leave. The table is 7 handed, and I really don;t want to play 5 handed. I call a floorman over, ask him to put a plug on a seat on the open seat on the good table I've been keeping my eye on as this table is going to break. He says sure, i get back to my game. Table breaks, i go over, there is no plug there. Another floor man says we are going to draw cards for it, I try to explain to him the situation. He blows me off, we draw cards, I lose. Any other way to better go about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

You cannot bypass drawing by "calling it" when a game breaks you draw. Also you can not leave a short game to go to a more full game (you can break teh game and draw).

[ QUOTE ]
#2. Continuation of the first situation. As soon as we are done drawing cards (I got a 9, winner got a J, other guy got a 4), another seat opens up at the good table. I point this out to the floorman who says, 'well, the other guy got a ten, didn't he?' The guy hears it, and is like "yeah, i got a ten, i got a ten" I look straight at him, calmly say "No, you got a 4". He curses me out, challenges me to go to the cameras. I shake my head and walk away realizing that the guy isn't going to back down and the time and ordeal for them to review the cameras would be a waste of time. After that, umm, gentleman, takes his seat, I pull the floor man to the side and calmly explain what just happened and I want to know what they are going to do to rectify it. He asked me why I didn't tell him this earlier, I said I did, but he didn't listen.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would you like the floor to do about it at this point?

[ QUOTE ]
#3. After waiting 20 minutes for a seat to open up, i get a seat at the rock garden. Well there are 2-3 soft spots, its a tough table for 5/10. I ask the floorman to let me know when another seat opens. One player is playing particularly agressive, open raising whenever he is in late position. I tried to iso-raise him once, but I had a loose BB who wouldn't let go of his marginal hand. One hand he is 3 bet by the player to my left, i muck, the hand goes down to showdown. Aggro asked the 3 better, "what do you have" after checking. He said a pair of queens, aggro mucks his cards. There was no bet on the river. I ask the dealer if I can see his cards, he quickly shoves them into the muck before the dealer gets a chance to. I ask the aggro player "don't a dick about it, it went to showdown, I have the right to see your cards". He said "You call me down, you can see my cards". I didn't want to make a scene about it, so I did not call the floor. However, in future situations, should I call the floor if the dealer does nothing to rectify this?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a right to ask to see the cards if you think he was colluding. If you were jsut curious waht the cards were you were being rude and were out of line. The dealer should protect the muck when you ask to see the cards, but if you play in a palce where they don't you can expect most players to put them in the muck when asked to show.

Re: Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

[ QUOTE ]

You have a right to ask to see the cards if you think he was colluding. If you were jsut curious waht the cards were you were being rude and were out of line. The dealer should protect the muck when you ask to see the cards, but if you play in a palce where they don't you can expect most players to put them in the muck when asked to show.

[/ QUOTE ]

First off, how do I know if there is colluding or to expect colluding if I don't see his cards? Is asking to see his cards on showdown when he made it all the way to the river really rude? The rest of the table got to see the winning hand, why not the losing hand? I guess I don't understand the right of the loser's hand to stay concealed when he loses. Poker is a game of information, shouldn't all the players at the table have the right to losing players cards? Second, shouldn't the dealer being the one telling me 'no, you don't get to see his cards' instead of the player taking action to prevent me from seeing them? This was my real problem with this. My question was, what should I do in that a situation where a player, not a dealer, refuses to show his cards at showdown and goes to a great length to prevent the dealer from doing his job. While the dealer didn't seemed that interested in helping me out here, if the dealer had, it would have been impossible.

Re: Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

Saying you want to see the hand is equivelant to saying I think you are cheaating so players will be hostile when you do this. You can ask, but if you abuse the priveledge the floor will take it away.

Re: Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

"Is asking to see his cards on showdown when he made it all the way to the river really rude?"


Yes.

We have had a million threads on the awful IWTSTH rule. It should be abolished or modified. You can technically do it, but expect to be disliked, it is obvious you are fishing for information which is an abuse of the rule and rude. The best policy I have heard is the one at Bellagio's top section. You can ask to see a hand. Once. Ever. The alleged purpose of the rule (catching colluders, which the rule doesn't BTW) is served, and no whining nits get to ask to see a million hands. Not saying you are a whining nit. But see you don't become one.

Re: Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

Read this

Re: Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

about number 3, u were being a dick about asking to see his cards for sure

Re: Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

You generally have to draw cards when a table breaks. The guy lying about his card was a dick.

Don't ask to see people's cards.

SpaceAce

Re: Some Strange Situations at MCC last night (B+M etiquette)
 

Thanks for all the replies. I did not now that IWTSHC is so taboo, and I will not use it.