PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9.33 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (12.33 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Button calls, Hero folds?

Final Pot: 14.33 BB

Re: PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

Similar hand. These are the kinds of situations where I call too much on the river. Do people think these calls are +EV or -EV?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

Re: PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

Any stats on the players...?

That first hand is one ugly board, though.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

Re: PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

1st hand: UTG+2 is unknown and button was tight/passive over a very small sample of hands (~40)
2nd hand: SB is 47/7.7/1.09 and I think BB was unknown.

Re: PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

I usually call this down. Is that a leak? I think people will bluff at these boards often enough to warrant calling down.

Re: PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

1st hand - in the heat of the battle i probably overcall, though folding might be correct. everything got there. i feel like it's a very close decision and so i err on the side of calling in pots of this size. the psychological effect of folding and then seeing that you had the best hand must be considered here.

2nd hand - i think a river call is much clearer here, b/c you almost surely have the bb beat and the sb could be betting a weaker ace. i think raising the turn on hand 2 has merit, also.

Re: PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9.66 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (9.33 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

River: (12.33 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Button calls, Hero folds?

Final Pot: 14.33 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was HU on the river, this is an easy call. But the button is both a tight, conservative player, AND calling a river bet on that board, right? I think you can safely fold this hand and feel good about it.

Re: PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

On hand 2, what is your range for BB's hand after the flop bet? I assume you are planning to fold the turn unimproved.

Re: PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

right fold.

Re: PP 15/30 - I hate these kind of hands
 

[ QUOTE ]
On hand 2, what is your range for BB's hand after the flop bet? I assume you are planning to fold the turn unimproved.

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess was a 9 or maybe a 6 or 77-88. Basically some pair that he wouldn't lay down even though the A killed it. His lack of a turn raise tells me that he doesn't have two pair/trips/straight. And yes, I was folding the turn UI.