Tough River Decision
 

Seat 6 seems solid; seat is extremely loose-passive.


7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.63 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___brings-in

4th Street - (3.13 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (4.06 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (10.06 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Seat 6: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___calls

River - (16.06 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___???
Total pot: (18.06 BB)

Re: Tough River Decision
 

Err... actually, tough 6th street decision,with 1.5 outs or so. Just saw that. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Re: Tough River Decision
 

Why didn't you complete on third? Seems like once these folk get involved in a hand, they are pretty hard to shake.

I don't know, could Seat 5 think you were jamming a flush draw and now thinks his Kings up are ahead. After all, you didn't complete on third.

Re: Tough River Decision
 

River to me look slike a call. Folding is not in order as he only sees a flush draw and jacks and does not see aces. pot is too large.

As to raising river, there is still an unknown to his hand. There is a dead king and Kings up 8's looks possible, but he might have the last king. He could even have a bizare flush draw. He showed strength on 6th, therefore i like the more cautios approach here of just calling, holding your breath and hopefully taking it down. But it would not surprise me if you tell us that oyu lost the hand.

Re: Tough River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you complete on third? Seems like once these folk get involved in a hand, they are pretty hard to shake.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I’m still kicking myself for that; I noticed the dead ace a second to late (although completing with live aces is cool also).


[ QUOTE ]
I don't know, could Seat 5 think you were jamming a flush draw and now thinks his Kings up are ahead. After all, you didn't complete on third.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is passive… And I don’t think he puts ppl on hands at all. I dunno…

Re: Tough River Decision
 

I would like to raise this guy, myself. You said he was loose passive.It's the passive part that worries me, bacause a passive player probably wouldn'n re-raise on 6th.But maybe the thing to think of is--How good is his hand reading & desicion making. If he's not a good enough player to realize his kings up is not good, then a raise is in order.

Re: Tough River Decision
 

You're getting 17-1, seems like a call. I'd probably be reraising 6th too, but maybe I don't play with people who are "extremely loose passive" much.

Re: Tough River Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably be reraising 6th too, but maybe I don't play with people who are "extremely loose passive" much.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean you’d cap it? You have just told him you can beat kings up, and he has just let you know that he doesn’t give a [censored]. Looks like a fold to me.

Re: Tough River Decision
 

Which is why you don;t raise on 6th or river, but i believe that folding is out of question given pot size and uncertainty as to his hand reading skills. Yes, it looks lost to you, but i don't agree about your folding here. I suspect that you did not fold here, at least hopefully, so we can see what he did have.

RESULTS
 

Okay, just to clarify, I’m not trying to advocate making huge fold all the time. I’m simply trying to get away from this auto-call approach. I’m sick of paying off for the good of society. I’d much rather try to use my hand reading abilities and experience to try and estimate a percentage of how often I will be good and make a more accurate decision.
I felt really bad about my call here, because I was really, really sure I was beat. Turns out I was right. He showed me [ Kh 6c 8d 6s Ks Kd 8h ].
If I find a hand where I win by making one of these “I know I’m beat but what the hell”-calls I’ll make sure to post it, too.