When to call down with TP
 

I am somewhat confused as to when I should be seeing a SD with top pair good kicker. I used to fold these on a regular basis, but reading SSHE made me realize that doing this on a regular basis could be wrong depending on pot size. Both these hands are painfully standard - I hit top pair, bet the flop, villian hits their hand on the turn & raises me then i am looking at ~8BB on my turn call and ~10BB on my river call. Are these bad calls? Both these hands were without reads, given reads (extremely tight player, extremely aggressive player) I think I could make a more informed fold/call decision, but without reads, what is the best +EV play?

Sorry again if this is painfully standard, but I think it's still a hole in my game. Looking back i think the 2nd hand is a much easier laydown than the first ... would it be right to release to the turn raise? If I believe his jack, then I'm only drawing to 2 outs ...

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB



and


Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, Button folds, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (10.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB

Re: When to call down with TP
 

i would rather fold hand 1 than hand 2.

against a lot of players i will fold these hands, but i don't like doing it against unknowns.

Re: When to call down with TP
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would rather fold hand 1 than hand 2.

against a lot of players i will fold these hands, but i don't like doing it against unknowns.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fold the raise or fold the river? A lot of players might raise their middle pair / flush draw or gutshot + flush draw, so Im apprehensive to fold to just a raise on the turn ...

Re: When to call down with TP
 

I'm thinking he meant fold to the river. A player may semi bluff a flush draw they picked up, but very seldomly continue betting when they miss it.

The 4th straight card also hurts alot.