TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

This is actually a pretty good Paradise table. About 50% seeing the flop, not too much aggression without a hand...I liked it. No specific reads as I was only about 1 1/2 orbits in.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero ?

My thinking: I'm last-to-act against 2 other players, and the pot is 13SB to me. I can't protect my overpair by raising here, presenting the first 2 players with 14:1 to call. If I call and then raise the turn, the pot will be 8BB when it gets to me and I'll be giving any OESD or flush draw from the flop 10:1 to call. So, since I can't raise to protect, my inclination is to raise for value, "get my money in while I've got the best of it."

Is a raise here correct?

Re: TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

Raise. The turn bet is likely to come from UTG or it will be checked to you, so you're not going to be able to shut any hands out of the pot given your position anyway.

Re: TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

I'd raise. If the caller in between is on a flush draw, there is nothing you can do about it because he's going to call anyway. Push while you're still good.

Re: TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

What do we put UTG on here? Certainly not much that beats us. I see A8 and pretty much any high flush draw. I think that if he has the flush draw with two overs to your pair, you wait until the turn to raise since the turn card will give you a much better picture of where you stand compared to your opponent. Come to think of it, wasn't this hand or a very similar hand in SSHE?

Edit: I think it had to do with waiting for the turn to raise since you only have a small equity edge aganst a big draw like flush draw w/2 overs.

Re: TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

UTG has tons of hands here. Any straight draw, any 8, a lot of 7s, any spade draw, etc.

Re: TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

We raise here for value b/c we likely have the best hand. There are a ton of turn cards that are going to make us uneasy about raising.

Re: TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is actually a pretty good Paradise table. About 50% seeing the flop, not too much aggression without a hand...I liked it. No specific reads as I was only about 1 1/2 orbits in.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero ?

My thinking: I'm last-to-act against 2 other players, and the pot is 13SB to me. I can't protect my overpair by raising here, presenting the first 2 players with 14:1 to call. If I call and then raise the turn, the pot will be 8BB when it gets to me and I'll be giving any OESD or flush draw from the flop 10:1 to call. So, since I can't raise to protect, my inclination is to raise for value, "get my money in while I've got the best of it."

Is a raise here correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Alternatively, you can raise on the turn if no overcards/flush cards fall, giving you more value out of your raise than a flop raise. (Bigger bets, more equity.)

Re: TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
We raise here for value b/c we likely have the best hand. There are a ton of turn cards that are going to make us uneasy about raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an argument for not raising. As in, you can wait and see if the turn wrecks your hand, then raise if it doesn't.

Re: TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

I disagree. My point is that we have a flush draw, str8 draw, board pairing, or any overcard is likely to make us fear raising. So there are like maybe 10 turn cards that we will want to raise. On top of that, we don't even know if someone on our right will even bet the turn. I say get the raise in now.

Re: TT - when waiting to raise doesn\'t protect your hand
 

Isn't this exactly why we don't raise this flop?

If a blank does fall on the turn, we have a HUGE equity edge, whereas our edge might be small at best on the flop.

I'm not saying the flop raise is incorrect here, but I think a turn-raise is better.