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-   -   Second pair checkraised on the turn. (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=334207)

Jeff W 09-11-2005 01:21 AM

Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
Villain is tight/aggressive.

Stats: 22/12 over 550 hands
2.1/1.9/0.7 AFs
Checkraise%=2.9%

Party Poker 20/40 (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, Hero folds.

CardSharpCook 09-11-2005 01:32 AM

Re: Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
So, the question is, does he have AQ or is he taking the chance that you have AK? The real question is does he have AQ (or better) 80% of the time? Of course the answer is no. Call him down.

ggbman 09-11-2005 01:34 AM

Re: Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
Checking behind the turn should be a serious consideration here sometimes. The way you played it, i can't see not folding to that c/r, but the added value of always getting to showdown and inducing bluffs/value bets from worse hands than yours is appealing. I know you miss out on value sometimes, you also don't get bown off the pot others.

Jeff W 09-11-2005 01:41 AM

Re: Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
The problem with checking behind on the turn is that he's not bluffing the river. Against an aggressive opponent, I like checking behind on the turn.

CardSharpCook 09-11-2005 01:44 AM

Re: Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
I disagree with checking here. First, there is a heart draw out there. Second, I have no desire to let him draw to 6 outs for free. Third, there are still hands that you can value bet here. He can be open raising with 77/88 and he may feel that it is wise to call down with AK.

CardSharpCook 09-11-2005 01:47 AM

Re: Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with checking behind on the turn is that he's not bluffing the river. Against an aggressive opponent, I like checking behind on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I'd rather let the agro hang himself with a chk/rz when I have to call down anyway. And the same theory of not letting him draw to 6 outs for free applies here too. The times that I check behind vs. an agro are when I have a decent drawing hand. By checking in that situation I get him betting into my made hand on the river, and they usually call when I raise the river, meaning I still get my two bets.

ggbman 09-11-2005 02:11 AM

Re: Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
Well jeff, since he's passive you probably right about the turn check.

And CSC, it's not that he can't have a worse hand that he will pay off, but that anaylsis doesn't take into account the times we're already beat and showdown for 2 less bets.

CardSharpCook 09-11-2005 02:14 AM

Re: Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
that's true. Then the question is, which costs more: losing the pot by letting him draw to 6 outs which he'd fold, or charging ourselves an extra 2 bets against hands that have us beat.

steveyz 09-11-2005 06:28 PM

Re: Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
Don't like it. I think villian might be capable of raising 88/77 here hoping to fold either a hand like yours or AK.

imashyboi 09-11-2005 11:00 PM

Re: Second pair checkraised on the turn.
 
Does anyone here think he might have a Q more than a mid pair that beats us? His stats doesn't imply super tight, he's probably willing to raise here with a KQs or AQ. I like the bet on the turn since he is pretty passive on the flops, if he raises he most likely have a hand we can't beat. Is he willing to semi-bluff here with a raise OOP? IF he's willing to do that with a mid pair OOP then I'm calling him down.


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