Man I play like crap
 

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 25 Ante (10 handed) converter

UTG+2 (t12885)
MP1 (t4500)
Hero (t14260)
MP3 (t10140)
CO (t10815)
Button (t16040)
SB (t18060)
BB (t9030)
UTG (t3755)
UTG+1 (t11295)

this effing converter still doesn't seem to work right, so I have to add/correct things.

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of t100.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t200, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t800</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG+1 calls t600.

Flop: (t1900) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t1750</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t3500</font>, Hero calls t1750.

Turn: (t8900) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t2000</font>, Hero calls t2000.

River: (t12900) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t4000</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t16900

I think I should have put him in on the turn. his bet is quite weak given the size of the pot.

anyone think I should have played any other streets differently?

-Scott

Re: Man I play like crap
 

Yea i like a push on the turn there.. i dont see him playing a hand that has you beat that way... maybe a tiny set? but i think he might wait to play it that hard... i'm thinking JT/KT/AT or maybe a flush draw...

Re: Man I play like crap
 

I don't think you played it so badly. I think the biggest decision in the hand is if you want to raise preflop against this limper with ATs from mp2.

I don't like pushing the turn, because villain is playing this hand like they've got a big pair or a set. If they're drawing to a flush, they've charged themselves quite a bit in the hand to draw anyway. This is one of those hands where I just want to get to the river as cheaply as possible.

shameless bump
 

I'd love some more opinions on this hand.

Thanks!

-Scott

Re: shameless bump
 

Scot,

After the flop, do you think you were ahead or behind. And what range of hands do you think UTG could limp, call your raise, and make a min-raise on that flop?

Nick

Re: shameless bump
 

[ QUOTE ]
Scot,

After the flop, do you think you were ahead or behind. And what range of hands do you think UTG could limp, call your raise, and make a min-raise on that flop?

Nick

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that's part of the problem. villian's play confused me.

To elaborate: on the flop I thought I was ahead until he min-raised me. then I thought maybe flush draw?

But his very weak bet on the turn confused me as well. Don't know what hand it would be correct to play that way. I thought about putting him in at this point.

On the river, we have another over and the flush got there so I thought discretion was the better part of valor.

-Scott

Re: Man I play like crap
 

Preflop: I think I'd raise it a bit more because of the antes to maximize the chance of winning pre-flop or at least getting heads up. There is 750 in the pot so a pot-sized raise would be to 1150.

Flop: You need to decide if you're ahead or behind his range of hands. If you're behind, obviously you fold. If you're ahead, I think you can make an argument for both raising and calling.

As for a range of hands, I think there are definitely some hands he's raising here with that you're ahead of. I think it's one of those cases where people put you on AK, figure you're making a continuation bet, want to put you to some test so they mini-raise you with a middle pair. So I'm thinking AA-KK, 99-55 with some small possibility of a semi-bluff with a diamond draw.

So I think this is a really close decision. I don't know if I mind just calling the flop as that's a pretty strong move. If he comes out firing on the turn he probably has a hand you're behind.

Turn: Raise or fold. His bet seems a little weak but if he has a big hand it's actually not a bad sized bet. It doesn't protect against a diamond draw but heads up I wouldn't be too worried if I was him. You have to go with your gut here and if I didn't think he was a particularly good player I'd push.

Re: Man I play like crap
 

I don't like your river fold. If you call the turn then I think you should call the river. The smallish turn bet
suggest either nothing or a big hand. I would probably have folded on the turn, I would figure the miniraise on the flop and the tempting turn bet suggests a flopped set.

Bruce

Re: Man I play like crap
 

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: I think I'd raise it a bit more because of the antes to maximize the chance of winning pre-flop or at least getting heads up. There is 750 in the pot so a pot-sized raise would be to 1150.

Flop: You need to decide if you're ahead or behind his range of hands. If you're behind, obviously you fold. If you're ahead, I think you can make an argument for both raising and calling.

As for a range of hands, I think there are definitely some hands he's raising here with that you're ahead of. I think it's one of those cases where people put you on AK, figure you're making a continuation bet, want to put you to some test so they mini-raise you with a middle pair. So I'm thinking AA-KK, 99-55 with some small possibility of a semi-bluff with a diamond draw.

So I think this is a really close decision. I don't know if I mind just calling the flop as that's a pretty strong move. If he comes out firing on the turn he probably has a hand you're behind.

Turn: Raise or fold. His bet seems a little weak but if he has a big hand it's actually not a bad sized bet. It doesn't protect against a diamond draw but heads up I wouldn't be too worried if I was him. You have to go with your gut here and if I didn't think he was a particularly good player I'd push.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats funny here is you just walked the fence like a pro. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Nothing wrong with your analysis, sounds like something I'd say. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, but am I closer to understanding what are the right decisions? You pretty much left both options open to me at every decision point.

I guess this highlights the real problem with hand analysis. Lets look at each decision:

Flop: You need to decide if you're ahead or behind his range of hands. If you're behind, obviously you fold. If you're ahead, I think you can make an argument for both raising and calling.

Decide how? I can certainly find hands I'm beating like KT, and hands I'm behind to like sets (unlikely) or overpairs. Also the flush draw.

Turn: Raise or fold. His bet seems a little weak but if he has a big hand it's actually not a bad sized bet. It doesn't protect against a diamond draw but heads up I wouldn't be too worried if I was him. You have to go with your gut here and if I didn't think he was a particularly good player I'd push.

So why should I be raising if he has a big hand? That bet is either a strong hand, or a weak one like a draw. but which is it? I don't know how good he is or is not at this point. Problem is he's giving me a great price to see the river. At this point I think I call a non-diamond river card.

So what should I have done differently and why? telling me both options at each street doesn't help my play any [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

-Scott

Re: Man I play like crap
 

IF I am calling this flop it is the intent to shove the turn.