hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this hand
 

Sorry, cant find the hand history but here goes..

NL200 - my stack size (150), opponnet (200+)

Reads: only had 6 hands on the opponet, stats for the opponet were something like 23/4/1.5, so bascially a tight aggressive.

Preflop:

Me - on button with Ad As, I raise to 6.
SB - fold
BB - opponet calls.

Flop

K 10 ? (all clubs)

Opponet: checks
Me: bet 15
Opponet: check-raises to 50-60
Me: call

Turn:

7 heart

Opponet: goes all in, which puts me all in
Me: fold

------

wut do u guys think? my line of thinking of was that he had K10,set,or maybe even flopped a baby flush.

what do u think of the call, I was hoping to catch maybe higher two-pair or hoping for him to slowdown. Would you guys call the x-raise?

by the way, I asked what he had and he said he had top pair with flush draw (arrrgh!!).

Re: hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this hand
 

This is a tough spot, but flat calling his cr on the flop accomplishes nothing. Do you see why?

Results oriented thinking... You should have 3-bet all-in on the flop.

Re: hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this ha
 

baby flush is pretty unlikely given tight stats.. tight players dont call with suited connectors out of position heads up...well most don't.

give how fast he played it, I think set is very possible but not KT for the formentioned "tight" reasons.

I think Kx, ranging from AK to KJ are all possible, because if you think from villans perspective, you raised preflop than made a standard C-bet then called you. He puts you on either Kx or A High club draw.

It all really comes down to putting him on a range of hand he can do this with then estimating how often you are good here.. given about 2:1 pot odds you only need to be good 33%ish to show profit, and I think AA is good here much over that, probably 50/50 or so.

Re: hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this ha
 

um, haha, actually I dont see why flat calling the x-raise is wrong. I mean if he has me beat, den all in doesnt accomplish anything. If i call the turn, and scare card like a club came, maybe he will slowdown if he had a set or two. Or if he had only top pair with a decent kicker, he will slowdown and i can get a cheaper showdown.

Well thats just my thought, I would love to hear wut u have to say about my line of thinking here and maybe u can explain why calling the raise is wrong.

- thanks!!

Re: hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this ha
 

[ QUOTE ]
um, haha, actually I dont see why flat calling the x-raise is wrong. I mean if he has me beat, den all in doesnt accomplish anything. If i call the turn, and scare card like a club came, maybe he will slowdown if he had a set or two. Or if he had only top pair with a decent kicker, he will slowdown and i can get a cheaper showdown.

Well thats just my thought, I would love to hear wut u have to say about my line of thinking here and maybe u can explain why calling the raise is wrong.

- thanks!!

[/ QUOTE ]

because short of hitting your set, what diffrence does it make what card comes on the turn if youre going to fold to an all-in on the turn?

if youre going to fold the turn, you might as well have folded the flop to his check raise.

i am not saying the fold was wrong, however i am saying that calling the check raise and folding to an all-in on the turn is [censored] retarded.

Re: hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this ha
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
um, haha, actually I dont see why flat calling the x-raise is wrong. I mean if he has me beat, den all in doesnt accomplish anything. If i call the turn, and scare card like a club came, maybe he will slowdown if he had a set or two. Or if he had only top pair with a decent kicker, he will slowdown and i can get a cheaper showdown.

Well thats just my thought, I would love to hear wut u have to say about my line of thinking here and maybe u can explain why calling the raise is wrong.

- thanks!!

[/ QUOTE ]

because short of hitting your set, what diffrence does it make what card comes on the turn if youre going to fold to an all-in on the turn?

if youre going to fold the turn, you might as well have folded the flop to his check raise.

i am not saying the fold was wrong, however i am saying that calling the check raise and folding to an all-in on the turn is [censored] retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said. You have to know your opponent is making that play basically no matter what comes on the turn, so playing it that way essentially means you are calling for two outs (or one did you have the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?)

Yeah, reread OP, one out, this is no good at all.

Re: hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this ha
 

I probably 3-bet all in on the flop cause you only started with 75bb. Or I fold. I definitely don't call.

Oh and don't put any faith in the numbers you have on your opponent after 6 hands.

The Doc

Re: hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this ha
 

I actually don't mind calling his check-raise, except you have to call his turn all-in if no club comes and go all-in yourself if he checks. For those people saying 3-bet all-in on the flop, care to explain your rationale behind it?

Re: hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Reads: only had 6 hands... 23/4/1.5 ... so bascially a tight aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't know how this guy PF raised 4% of the time on only 6 hands.

anyway, i can't see him having anything like two-pair, a set or a small flush without betting at the flop,unless you had been betting at every flop you had PFR'd.
Simply because he wouldn't risk the free card if you check behind with the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

that leaves us with two possibilities, a lone nut flush draw, or a pair w/ an A-high or Q-high flush draw.
both of which you are ahead of on the flop.

villain will have a worse hand than a pair of aces a good percentage of the time on this flop.
i think the best play is to 3-bet all-in simply because a hand that is beating you is risking too much by giving you a free card.

unless he has played the nut flush very aggressively here (rare) you are ahead and you need to make money.

Re: hate folding aces, but felt it was right....how did i play this ha
 

Are you saying that because he check-raised, he can't have any hand that's beating us?

My thinking is that 3-betting all-in accomplishes nothing. It has ZERO fold equity against a flush, a flush draw, and a set. It gives villain a little over 2:1 pot odds, so he isn't making a mistake by calling if he has any kind of draw. Even if he has a set and believes that you have a flush 100% of the time, he's still calling you. So if you put your money in on that flop, sometimes you'll be a huge underdog, sometimes you'll be 50/50, and sometimes you'll be small favorite. That's not a situation that I want to be in. On the other hand, if you wait until a non-club turn to put the rest of your money in, sometimes you'll be a huge underdog and sometimes you'll be a huge favorite.