Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

Party Poker (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

I open raise one off the button. Button cold calls and the blinds tag along.

Flop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>

SB leads out. BB folds, I call, button folds.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB bets, I raise, SB calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

SB bets.

Obviously I'm not folding the river, but do I have him quartered often enough to raise, or should I just call since there is a decent chance he has me quartered?

Re: Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

I think that this is somewhat player dependent but I would usually raise this river. Nut low and queens up will get 3/4 a lot more often than it will get 1/4. I would expect to chop here more often than not. But like I said, its player/situation dependent. IF this guy is a monkey I raise it everyday.

Re: Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

It's a raise, especially at PP 6-max. You're 3/4'ing far more often than you're 1/4'd. I've seen this line before (specifically, where SB foregoes a turn 3-bet to donkbet the river), and it means, at best, "I have A2 and little else."

Re: Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

Definitely read dependent, but I'm leaning heavily to the raise.
What could the SB have that s/he chose to bet out on the river 8, that s/he could not 3 bet you on the turn when you guys were heads up already (Maybe A288)?
If the SB hand was that good, I would think they would look for c/r on the river. IMO you're probably getting 1/2, but your chances at getting 3/4, or more, compared to 1/4, or less, are great.

Re: Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

damn...sy gave the same advice a minute before me

Re: Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

Thanks for all the replies. Forgot to mention this hand was played at 5/10, don't know if that matters but as far as I can tell most people are too loose in general, and too aggressive with the nut low. They also seem to overvalue mediocre high hands. Those are just my general observations, I've also played in some games that were way too tight where I could steal the blinds often.

In the hand I chickened out and called, was shown A2 with nothing else. I feel like I'm missing some of those value raises on the big streets with potential scooping/quartering hands. I'm still new to O8, so hopefully I'll get better at them though. The only material I've read on O8 is o8poker.com. I'm considering picking up Zee's split-poker book.

Re: Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

simulation results for A24Q/A2XY/3468Qn
hand...high.....low..scoop...total
A2XY...1049.5...2500...0.....3549.5
A24Q...3950.5...2500...0.....6450.5

Stork - Focus on the second column above. A24Q is almost a four to one favorite for high over A2XY, where X and Y are random cards.

Buzz

Re: Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

Like DM said, this is read dependent- but I think that it is EXTREMELY read dependent. Buzz's simulation is pretty helpful, but you must use your player read to help you come to a good decision here. Instead of thinking about missing big bets in this situation, you need to think of it in terms of missing/saving bb's in the long run in this game. I agree that PP shorthanded O8 has plenty of monkeys, but you haven't given us any info on your opponent. Just a little info goes a long way in terms of saving 1/4 of yours or getting 1/4 of his when you toss another one in.

Guys, am I wrong in placing too much emphasis on noting the player profile here??

Re: Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

Yes I think that you are. I raise here against 90% of my opponents and would cap against 30%.

Take this hand from your opponents POV. If I was him HU I bet here with nut low + top pair and maybe even nut low with 2nd or 3rd pair. I think that you are going to miss out on some money if you don't raise this situation the vast majority of the time.

Re: Probably Boring, Possibly Interesting River Decision
 

Thanks for the reply Goop- sometimes I have a tendency to rely more on player reads than the numbers in short-handed play.