Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

Is this a good line here? UTG+1 is TAG, MP2 is very LAG.

PartyPoker - $15/$30 Texas - 9 players (Converter: PGC)

Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

PreFlop
<font color="blue">UTG folds</font>, <font color="red">UTG+1 RAISES</font>, <font color="green">MP1 Calls</font>, <font color="green">MP2 Calls</font>, <font color="red">Hero RAISES</font>, <font color="blue">CO folds</font>, <font color="blue">Button folds</font>
<font color="blue">SB folds</font>, <font color="blue">BB folds</font>, <font color="red">UTG+1 RAISES</font>, <font color="green">MP1 Calls</font>, <font color="green">MP2 Calls</font>, <font color="green">Hero Calls</font>

(4 players) FLOP: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 8.83 BB )
<font color="red">UTG+1 BETS</font>, <font color="blue">MP1 folds</font>, <font color="green">MP2 Calls</font>, <font color="green">Hero Calls</font>

(3 players) TURN: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 10.33 BB )
<font color="green">UTG+1 checks</font>, <font color="green">MP2 checks</font>, <font color="green">Hero checks</font>

(3 players) RIVER: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ( Pot Size: 10.33 BB )
<font color="green">UTG+1 checks</font>, <font color="red">MP2 BETS</font>, <font color="green">Hero Calls</font>
<font color="green">UTG+1 Calls</font>

Re: Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

I don't like your turn check. You've got the best hand a good majority of the time with that action and you'll get value from other pocket pairs.

I think you should raise the river and hope UTG+1 calls two cold with his pocket pair.

Re: Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

I think UTG+1 has to call with QQ/JJ less than never to make raising less profitable than calling on the river.

Re: Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

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I think UTG+1 has to call with QQ/JJ less than never to make raising less profitable than calling on the river.

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Can you phrase that in English?

Re: Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

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I think UTG+1 has to call with QQ/JJ less than never to make raising less profitable than calling on the river.

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By that you mean that a river raise is more profitable than a call even if UTG+1 never calls (e.g. always profitable)?

-Ash

Re: Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

im not saying you played this hand bad, im just saying you obviously won this pot, and it wasnt that big...

Re: Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your turn check. You've got the best hand a good majority of the time with that action and you'll get value from other pocket pairs.

I think you should raise the river and hope UTG+1 calls two cold with his pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you putting MP2 on. Hero said he was "very lag", does that mean its impossible for him to cold call twice with a raggy ace? I'd be considering two things on the turn, before deciding to bet. The first is how likely I think it is that MP2 has some junky ace (wouldn't we expect him to 3 bet PF with a good one, or with a pocket pair?) and whether or not I think he was "slowplaying" on the flop, and is trying to check raise me on the turn.

Secondly, and related to the first, can I fold to a c/r? If not, because this guy is so lag, i like the check. If I had JJ, it'd be different, but there aren't any river cards i've really all that scared of here.

Raising the river seems equally risky. The TAG isn't calling 2 with most hands (especially since our turn check screams MONSTER), and is LAG is bluffing he'll fold.

What am I missing?

lf

Re: Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

I like betting the turn, and I'm not folding to a raise from MP2. I cam understand the logic of a turn check (although mine might be different from yours), but then the river is a must raise.

Bottom line here is I am not afraid of an Ace at all after then both check this turn. Not that it is terrible for UTG to check this turn with AK, but I am not playing the hand as if he has that since it is uncommon.

Re: Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

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What am I missing?

lf

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Nothing, IMO. I'm with you - good analysis.

Nigel

Re: Passively Played Pair of Kings
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like your turn check. You've got the best hand a good majority of the time with that action and you'll get value from other pocket pairs.

I think you should raise the river and hope UTG+1 calls two cold with his pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you putting MP2 on. Hero said he was "very lag", does that mean its impossible for him to cold call twice with a raggy ace? I'd be considering two things on the turn, before deciding to bet. The first is how likely I think it is that MP2 has some junky ace (wouldn't we expect him to 3 bet PF with a good one, or with a pocket pair?) and whether or not I think he was "slowplaying" on the flop, and is trying to check raise me on the turn.

Secondly, and related to the first, can I fold to a c/r? If not, because this guy is so lag, i like the check. If I had JJ, it'd be different, but there aren't any river cards i've really all that scared of here.

Raising the river seems equally risky. The TAG isn't calling 2 with most hands (especially since our turn check screams MONSTER), and is LAG is bluffing he'll fold.

What am I missing?

lf

[/ QUOTE ]

The way the action played out it's very unlikely that either opponent has an ace. We can fairly safely put UTG1 on TT-QQ, and since it was UTG1 that bet the flop, it's very unlikely that MP2 would check the turn after he checks if he did have an ace.

That's also why I like the river raise. UTG1 will have a very tough time laying down QQ or JJ even for two bets on that river.