Opinion Needed on Flop Play
 

I'm moving this post here from the small stakes forum:

This is a UB .50/$1 limit 10-person game. I don’t have the EXACT positions for all involved, but here is an approximation. I’m in fairly early position with pocket sixes. Two people fold in front of me, I call. Two people call behind me, the next person raises, bb calls, sb calls, I call and the next two people call. The flop comes 3-5-9 rainbow. I’m first to act and I bet. My reasoning is that this is a pretty ragged board and I think my 6’s might be good. Had there been any high cards or anything of interest on the board, I would have check-folded. Next two call, and the pre-flop raiser raises. BB and SB fold, I call, and the next two people call. My thinking for the call was that, in my experience, at least 50% of the time the raiser has A-K or other overcards. He might have a high pocket pair, but I don’t think that this is likely enough for me to fold at that point.

Turn is a six, I win the hand, and the pre-flop raiser goes nuts on me. Now, I realize that the more traditional play on the flop would have been a check-fold, but with a crappy flop like that, sometimes I like to take a shot at it if the pot is reasonably large.

My question: Was my reasoning THAT ridiculous? Can ANY case be made for it? I know one thing, I’m turning off the chat feature from now on. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Opinion Needed on Flop Play
 

I'd check-raise the flop.

Re: Opinion Needed on Flop Play
 

nice win, but i would have check/folded on the flop. In order to bet, you have to think there is a realistic chance you can win it right here, which there isn't. Generally, I won't bet small pairs that haven't improved into a large field. Although I don't agree with your play, people who flame others while playing for making a bad decision are jerks and you shouldn't listen to them.

Re: Opinion Needed on Flop Play
 

Why?

Re: Opinion Needed on Flop Play
 

Thanks. I think my point was that it may not have been the BEST play in the world, but it wasn't like a totally idiotic play--as in calling all the way down to the river with the sixes and overcards on the board. I had some reasoning behind it, even if it was flawed. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I don't think it was worth a RANT! But then again, this guy was ranting constantly....

Re: Opinion Needed on Flop Play
 

Your flop bet will fold the field almost never and your hand is still very vulnerable as anyone that calls likely has 6 outs against you. The only way to protect your hand here is to go for a check/raise.

You are right that about 50% of the time the preflop raiser has just overcards so the best play is to check to him so he'll bet hopefully folding the blinds and then raise. This will force the players between you to call 2 bets cold (which they may do but they will not have the odds to do so). If he bets and gets several callers you need to figure out how many outs you have in determining whether to continue or not (I would call or fold though). You may have odds as you have a few backdoor draws (any 2,4,7,8 improves your hand and a 6 drastically improves it). Probably 3-4 outs total.

You could also call his flop bet and go for a check/raise on the turn if a blank fell, depending on how likely he is to continue on a bluff and how many people are left in the hand.

Re: Opinion Needed on Flop Play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it was worth a RANT! But then again, this guy was ranting constantly....

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah never worry about ranting players, it has nothing to do with whether you made the right play or not - usually a bad player who got a solid starting hand (high pocket pair) he couldn't let go of when he was clearly beaten. I usually like to say something like "Hey any two cards can win" or "It's all gambling anyway"... gets them all steamed up... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Opinion Needed on Flop Play
 

I really don't think your hand is strong enough for a check raise here. You have 3 outs and almost anything beats you. True, raiser could have AK or something like that, but he's not going away. Your hand is too weak to try and protect. Also, what if PF raiser 3 bets you?

Re: Opinion Needed on Flop Play
 

Thank you deception. That was really helpful. I think I really need to use the flop check-raise a LOT more often than I do, and you explained it very nicely so that it makes sense.