Please Help!!!
 

Hi guys, I’m an amateur poker player who plays No Limit Texas Hold’em cash games. I usually play with friends at a single table where winner takes all (sit and go style). I’ve had some success but have run into a difficulty of late. Even though I have been dominating the regulars I usually play with, when I played with a different group of friends I did horrible. The group I’m having trouble against plays very loose and very aggressive. All of my opponents call or raise before the flop no matter what two cards they hold; literally the pot could be re-raised three times and some maniac would come in with 2 7 off suit. Also, they rarely give up their hands and with 8 other people staying in till the river I could have A A for my starting hand and some ones likely to hit something better. In most books I’ve read it is suggested that a player tightens up at a loose table, this makes perfect sense when playing at a Vegas table, but if I do that under these circumstances, with so many players in the action, usually some one is going to hit something no matter how selective I am in my starting hand selection; most importantly, with everyone constantly seeing the flop and me folding my bad hands I get a huge chip stack disadvantage as the field is thinned and the money gets passed to whoever was lucky in the round.

So my question is basically this: how can I win this game consistently? Or is this just a situation when skill is mostly eliminated and chance takes precedence. Thanks for all your responses.

Re: Please Help!!!
 

<font color="blue">Sounds like you play too tight against loose opponents, which I'll admit I'm guilty of. A few things I've done to combat this is to protect premium hands with reraises and play suited connecting cards (one and two gappers) late in positon - especially when I can limp in w/ them, or there's alot of players in the pot and it's not one of them raise/reraise/reraise environments.

Experimenting cheaply with creative cards from good postion may open your game up enough to let you experiment from different positions with different cards. This way, you can get out if you don't hit, and when you do hit your cards and your draws, it'll pay off even better. Also, throw them some rope on your big hands, and let them hang themselves (check/calling works great). Hope this helps. </font>

Re: Please Help!!!
 

Posting in an other text color is not +EV [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Re: Please Help!!!
 

That really doesn't make any sense. How can you have 8 players seeing the river in an NL game? Sounds more like a super loose limit game to me.

If this really is NL, you just need to sit tight and bet big when you have a hand.
How about this:
get a premium hand preflop - push
flop top two or better - push

Re: Please Help!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]

How about this:
get a premium hand preflop - push
flop top two or better - push

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that's what I would say. If they're re-raising with nothing, you should make some money by pushing with JJ or better. That's a tough situation, though.

Re: Please Help!!!
 

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In most books I’ve read it is suggested that a player tightens up at a loose table,

[/ QUOTE ]
This is often said, but it is wrong. You should play more loosely at a loose table. That your opponents are playing trash means more hands become profitable.

People confuse winning a large percentage of the pots they play with winning money. Your goal should be to win money. If you put in 1/6 of the money, and win 1/4 of the pots, you are doing well.

[ QUOTE ]
So my question is basically this: how can I win this game consistently? Or is this just a situation when skill is mostly eliminated and chance takes precedence. Thanks for all your responses.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course these games are beatable. You can't expect to win all of the time, but you should easily win a disproportionate share. Make sure you are actually getting your money in as the favorite (or with the right odds), and not just starting with a better hand, but paying off after 72o catches two pair.

Re: Please Help!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
That really doesn't make any sense. How can you have 8 players seeing the river in an NL game? Sounds more like a super loose limit game to me.

If this really is NL, you just need to sit tight and bet big when you have a hand.
How about this:
get a premium hand preflop - push
flop top two or better - push

[/ QUOTE ]

completely agree. don't [censored] around... get yourself AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, or JJ and push it. or flop 2 pair or better and push it.

Re: Please Help!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Posting in an other text color is not +EV [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

There is an English word: ANOTHER

try it sometime...

-ZEN

Re: Please Help!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is often said, but it is wrong. You should play more loosely at a loose table. That your opponents are playing trash means more hands become profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason you tighten up a little is so that you can crush them and get paid off when you have a hand. By playing too many hands, you will lose more money when you miss and they keep playing on and you fold, or you will catch a piece of the flop and stay when you shouldn't even be in the hand to begin with.

You need to try and play the opposite of what the table is doing, but hey what do I know, just because most of the top pros advocate this strategy what do they know right.

Re: Please Help!!!
 

It seems the plan would be to zero-in on a looseness metric like VP$IP, guage where your oppoenents are playing, and shoot to simply play some delta tighter than that metric. So yes, you are playing loose ( looser than you would normally play ) - but you are playing tight ( tighter than your opponents ) - balancing out through hand selection the number of hands you play ( loosening up ), your win rate ( your hands are tighter than theirs ), and your rate of chip burn on loose hands ( you aren't throwing away as many chips on garbage as fast as they are ).

Comments?

-turbo