River check-raise time?
 

Just posted my grimmest hand of the night -- but this was my favorite.

Villain was a TAG, and I put him on a decent ace and/or a decent spade. Check the river looking to checkraise a value-bet or missed flush draw, or bet out? (For what it's worth I thought a strong ace was very likely, probably AK given the preflop cap and the postflop action, i.e raising the turn after things look safe.)

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: "Hero" is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">"Hero" 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, "Hero" calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">"Hero" bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">"Hero" bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">"Hero" 3-bets</font>, MP calls.

River: (11.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">"Hero" . . . . ? </font>

Re: River check-raise time?
 

What hands do you think he would put you on?
Ace with a big spade kicker
flush
set

I think villian is happy to check this down unless he thinks you're LAG enough to play a worse pair and a flush draw this way.

Re: River check-raise time?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What hands do you think he would put you on?
Ace with a big spade kicker
flush
set

I think villian is happy to check this down unless he thinks you're LAG enough to play a worse pair and a flush draw this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

He might. I was on a nice rush of cards and had been ramming and jamming like crazy. So he might have thought I was going nuts with something like K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Tough to say.

Re: River check-raise time?
 

Those were the two I was thinking of when I first read your post.

It only has to work 50% of the time, but he also has to call the river raise.

He made it obvious he had a big ace on the turn and you didn't slow down. I can see it working, but I don't think it does enough to be &gt; leading.

fwiw, im a big vagina that hardly ever check/raises rivers. But I think it's a bet.

Re: River check-raise time?
 

Why did you lead the flop? I think checkraising this one is superior.

EDIT - Also, I think this river checkraise is fairly transparent [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: River check-raise time?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check the river looking to checkraise a value-bet or missed flush draw, or bet out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet out, after the turn action, the chance that he checks back is too high IMO.

Re: River check-raise time?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you lead the flop? I think checkraising this one is superior.

EDIT - Also, I think this river checkraise is fairly transparent [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet out on the flop looking to 3-bet.
By "fairly transparent" do you mean that it's obvious that I should have checkraised the river, or that it'd be so obvious that that was what I was trying to do, there's no way I should go for the river checkraise?

Re: River check-raise time?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you lead the flop? I think checkraising this one is superior.

EDIT - Also, I think this river checkraise is fairly transparent [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet out on the flop looking to 3-bet.
By "fairly transparent" do you mean that it's obvious that I should have checkraised the river, or that it'd be so obvious that that was what I was trying to do, there's no way I should go for the river checkraise?

[/ QUOTE ]

The latter.

I'm especially interested in the flop bet though. I know if i'm the preflop capper that I definitely passive up if someone bets into me, but maybe it's different for others.

Re: River check-raise time?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm especially interested in the flop bet though. I know if i'm the preflop capper that I definitely passive up if someone bets into me, but maybe it's different for others.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured that on this monotone flop, if he had an ace (likely) or a big spade (50-50), that he wouldn't be able to help but raise a flop bet here. A flop checkraise looks strong . . . a flop donkbet on a monotone flop could mean anything, and the default is, I think, that I'm a nut on a draw.

Re: River check-raise time?
 

-I like leading the flop to 3 bet it more than cr the flop, myself. I just think the cr is unecessary, b/c it is highly likely that there is going to be some action on this flop....and I want it. I think the best way to get the most action is to lead the flop after his pf cap.

-I have been trying to river c/r more myself, with some success. I cannot exacly verbalize it, but I would not have picked this spot...b/c he is less likely to call c/r here than in other situations when he improves to an A on the river. Especially after that turn action, I lead river here.

I may also go for the river cr if he had just called turn.