dark checking pre-flop
 

i've never played live, but i had an "a-durh" moment yesterday watching the 04 WSOP;

a pre-flop dark check from the BB is like giving yourself the button on the flop, huh?

you don't give up any "information" b/c you're not checking after you've already seen the flop.

is this a useable tactic in live play? are there any rules governing doing anything "in the dark"?

Re: dark checking pre-flop
 

The dark check usually implies weakness. I like to use it when I complete from the SB with something like K3s behind a few limpers. If I totally miss, I toss my hand. If the K hits, I often CR when it gets back to me. If it hits, is bet and raised, I'm no good and I toss my hand.

Re: dark checking pre-flop
 

I hate dark checking but I do like Milo's move there. However in a headsup pot, where I saw it used on the WSOP, I think it's always a stupid move, unkess it's NL and you plan on a big raise/all in bet. I think I remember David Williams either busting or doubling up on Arieh with that move. In limit poker it simply costs you too many bets heads up though (in my opinion).

Good luck,
Matt

Re: dark checking pre-flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
a pre-flop dark check from the BB is like giving yourself the button on the flop, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if it gets checked around.

Re: dark checking pre-flop
 

To clarify, I do not do this often...

Re: dark checking pre-flop
 

One of my favorite hands. One of my good friends and I are involved in a pot, I call $35 from the BB with KQo and check preflop. Flop QQ4. He goes all in I instacall and bust him. The whole night he was complaining that checking dark is stupid. Obviously if it confuses someone then it's worth it. Confusion is +EV (if you flop trips!)

Re: dark checking pre-flop
 

I've only done this once in my life (it's perfectly legal, one could argue stupid to do because you are chosing your action with less information than you could) and it worked like a charm.

I had pocket 7's (NL tourney) and I raised from early position, it folded around to the button who reraised me (but only a little). I called and announced I was checking in the dark.

Flop come x7x, i'm just looking at him and he's totally confused and makes a small bet, which I of course raise and he calls. Next card was another brick, I bet at it and he folded.

Obviously I was gonna win the hand pretty much no matter how I played it but it did geniunely confuse him.

Re: dark checking pre-flop
 

I've come to realize that I might as well dark check when I call a steal raise from the BB and it's heads up going to the flop. I noticed that pretty much every single time my flop action was going to be to check and raise or check and fold (and heck, checking and calling has it's places too, such as with a weak but showdownable hand against a maniac). That's the only time I've ever thought of dark checking, although since I play 95% online I've never done it. I don't think I would do it live either because I'm not even sure if my justification is logical and I'd hate to give off a tell.

Re: dark checking pre-flop
 

where i play live last time the guy next to me thought he was a big shot by doing this all the time but he never won.

best thing that came out of his stupidity: he straddles everytime he is EP1 (raises without looking at his cards). i am to his left and 3 bet and it eventually gets capped at 5 by 7 players. I had KK and the flop is K34 and two spades, so a lot of action. turn is a 3 and i'm loving life. gooes to the river where i bet and it's raised and 3 bet back to me...awesome! my boat took in over $175 at 3/6. crazy mofo, if you're reading this i owe you!

Re: dark checking pre-flop
 

there are a few advantages of checking in the dark preflop but it also can screw you. Say 3 people call u check in the dark with 8-7 and then the flop comes 774. All players check and you cant bet. You missed a major opportunity to get a lot of chips in the pot.