All these college kids who want to go pro
 

I work with students every day on a college campus, and it alarms me to see the number of posts on the 2+2 psychology forums from college students, whose only career plan seems to be playing poker for a living. At first there were only a few, but lately there's been a flood of "Should I drop out/Yes I'm dropping out/My grades are in the tank cause I play poker instead of studying but who cares I'm making 20K online/I'm going pro so I don't need college anyway" type of posts.

I think this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed. College students are one of the biggest reasons for the current poker boom. I have no doubt that online poker is creating many, many addicted gamblers on college campuses across the country. Many of these players are giving no thought to their future, other than plotting their carreer as a professional poker player when they graduate (or flunk out).

I think that the many winning college players on this board who are contemplating a pro career, need to be honest with themselves and examine their priorities. Some things to think about for all the "future pros" out there...

1. 20k or 30k a year might seem awesome in college when you have no expenses - but in the real world it's nothing. Just because you can make that much playing lower-limit games after classes, does not mean you'll still be able to win when you move up in limits and try to make enough money to live on or support a family.

2. You might not be as good as you think. Do you honestly think all these wannabe pros are really good enough to make poker their livelihood? It's like every college basketball player thinking they'll just quit school and join the NBA. Most of the winning college players will never be good enough to earn a decent living from the game.

3. The games will probably never be easier than they are right now. They will almost certainly get harder in the future, when the poker fad dies down and the fish aren't so plentiful. Just because you can win now, doesn't mean you will continue to win indefinitely. When the games tighten up and you're no longer winning, you're faced with the prospect of finding a "real" job, with no employment history and perhaps no degree.

4. Work is (hopefully) more than a paycheck. Poker as a career is not particularly useful to society. It doesn't help anyone, and it is not necessarily the best use of your unique talents. I know from experience that it's hard to convince college students of this point. They may have friends who recently graduated, who are now working lousy entry-level jobs for low pay. The transition from the fun, comparatively carefree life of a college student, to the full-time workforce is a tough one. So of course, playing poker might sound like a good alternative. But there are many people who absolutely love their jobs - even if they had to suffer through a few years on the bottom rung of the career ladder before they got there. Playing poker is not the only route out of wage-slave hell. A fulfilling career, with poker a profitable hobby on the side, is probably the ideal situation for most people. If you cannot think of another career that could even remotely interest you besides playing poker, you probably need to spend some time examining yourself and what you really want out of life.

5. Playing a gambling game for a living is not an easy life, physically or psychologically. I'd guess there aren't many who are really equipped to handle it. Something that might seem easy when you are playing for extra spending money in college can seem a lot tougher when you are playing to pay for your kid's braces or next month's mortgage payment.

Yes, there are some who may possibly have the rare combination of psychological makeup and poker skills to make a go of a pro career. But many, many more will not. Before the WPT and the current television poker boom, you never heard young college students planning to play poker for a living. Instead they planned to become doctors, architects, schoolteachers, or whatever else they felt passionate about. I worry that today, many college students are ignoring their god-given talents in favor of what they mistakenly perceive as an easy life of big money. This is not only harmful to the individual, but it hurts society as a whole. It robs the rest of us of their contributions, while they sit in front of an LCD screen pushing virtual chips around a table.

Re: All these college kids who want to go pro
 

its a great post. as a 20 year old whos been pro for a year i couldnt agree with you more.

however, some things to think about:

maybe college kids have never thought about playing poker for a living before today's age because maybe its never been so easy to go pro and maybe these college kids have actually in fact tapped into the new moneymaking fad, which will propel them to great wealth, just like those who tapped into the internet stock trend.

however, youre certainly right, more people than not are going to fail at becoming pro. its -ev for a college kid to turn pro when comparing them as a statistic and not their individual personality type.


i, a 20 year old pro, am currently a leech of society. i am garbage.

to those interested in turning pro, you probably see the easy money flowing along with the easy lifestyle of working on your own. what you dont see are the hardships that come with it, along with the fact that when you look in the mirror, all you see is a hustler, because thats what you are.

i hope that i havent offended anybody with this message.

Re: All these college kids who want to go pro
 

Amen.

I graduated from college 2 years ago with a degree in Civil Engineering. This is far from the highest paying degree you can get in college or within engineering for that matter, but there's no way I would play poker for a living.

I get paid time off. A lot, actually. If a pro takes a week off from poker, they get nothing. If they get sick: nothing.

I have a 401K that my company contributes $ to. My money is vested and I can take loans out on it if I need to. How much interest do you make on the money sitting in a poker site or Neteller??? (And you thought the only way they made money was the rake.)

No "bad luck" affects my regular salary. Only an act of Congress that limits federal transportation funding could hurt my salary, BUT the projects I'm working on are funded for the next 10 years anyway.

I get bonuses. They increase every year. And I don't need to clear 5,000,000 raked hands at 40 sites in 7 hours to get it!

I get raises. This year my increase was about 7%, and that is a little on the low side. Next year I will take the PE exam, which will license me to sign/seal plans and documents as a Professional Engineer = $$$$$$$.

I can get a job at almost any other company in my field, anywhere in the country. My skills and experience are desired and worth money.

Oh, and I play poker. For fun and additional $. This is the situation college students should be working towards. Use those math skills for something useful and gut the poker fish in the evenings and on weekends. The fishing is usually better then anyways. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: All these college kids who want to go pro
 

[ QUOTE ]
i, a 20 year old pro, am currently a leech of society. i am garbage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to state that I certainly did not mean to imply that there was anything wrong with a person who plays poker for a living. If that was the impression, I apologize. It's an honest living, and if you are one of the few who can make a living at it, I wish you continued success.

My main point is that college students should not ignore all their other talents, and ways they might contribute to society (and ways they could make a lot of money btw), because they mistakenly see playing poker as an easy and painless path to riches.

Re: All these college kids who want to go pro
 

no my comments had nothing to do you with you.

Re: All these college kids who want to go pro
 

As you probably noticed, I quoted you in my current article in our magazine, "Don't take poker too seriously, Part I." You have clearly thought a lot about what is really important.

Part II of this series agree completely with your position here. Normally, I would not undermine an unpublished article by quoting from it, but your post is too important to delay. I will just quote a bit from Part II.

"I have seen far too many bright young people severely damage their lives by not finishing their degrees. I have also seen many parents in their twenties, thirties, and forties struggling with jobs, mortgages, children, and night school, trying to get the degrees they could have gotten easily when they were younger.

"If you are a student, your most important task is completing your education."

Ed Miller and I are friends who work together, and some students may see his article in our current magazine as supporting the "drop out and turn pro" position.

It most definitely does not. Ed values education and has TWO degrees from M.I.T. If Ed and Mason, who are more talented than most, each invested the time needed to get two degrees, why would any student think that dropping out of school is a reasonable decision?

Respectfully,

Al

Re: All these college kids who want to go pro
 

Al, I just finsihed reading revolts post.
Between the psycology and the skill to be a poker play, I would question my skill more than the psycology. I am very honest with myself with regards to my strenghths and weaknesses, and while I am improving, if it was five years ago I would not be able to do what I'm doing right now.
Revolt really did hit the nail on the head in saying some people really need to figure out what the want out of life. I honestly don't know this.

Re: All these college kids who want to go pro
 

First I want to say, this is a very good post that all college students who play poker should take a look at. And, being a college student myself, I can say from experience that these thoughts often cross a young foolish teenagers mind. However, unlike the college students who think that after playing for a year or two that they can make it as a professional, I have opted to stick with education.

revot, you said it best when you said, "A fulfilling career, with poker a profitable hobby on the side, is probably the ideal situation for most people." And that's the attitude to take, or at least the one I have taken.

Currently I am working on my pre-requisites which I will be applying to Chiropractic College. Getting my education to become a chiropractor is definitely more important than playing poker. Sure it's fun on the side, as an extra way to earn some money, but school should and always will be first (next to my fiance).

Re: All these college kids who want to go pro
 

I find it rather saddening that you think all college kids suck at poker and can only make 20K a year. I make 25K per month. I'm pretty sure I could live off that for the rest of life...I could be wrong though,as I am just a dumb college student. So far, since I quit my $10 an hour job, I can honestly say that life has been quite easy. I have had a huge downswing that has taught me to keep a fairly level head while playing and I not believe I am basically tilt proof. My only gripe with my life now is that I dont get out as much as I would like. I usually spend a lot of time playing/studying the game and it doesnt leave much time for anything else. As for finishing college, I think I will finish getting my psychology degree within about a year and a half, but I really dont think I will ever use it.
Having said all of that, I DO think it is stupid for the "poor" pokerplaying college students to drop out. If you are only making 20K per year, or even 80K per year, you wont be all that well off. I am pretty sure I will need to save quite a bit in order to be able to life when I get old and am unable to play poker at a fairly high level. It simply isnt possible to save money when you spend it all every month on rent. I guess all I am saying is that if you plan on making a living playing cards, you better be able to make a lot, otherwise you will be quite poor.

Re: All these college kids who want to go pro
 

My grades went in the tank bigtime this year (my senior year of college), and poker likely had an impact, but I think they would have tanked anyhow and I've had beautiful job offers in hand since October (I accepted an offer to be a strategy consultant starting in the fall). Basically, I joined the poker wave at almost the exact right moment- just as I'm leaving school, thus avoiding most deleterious effects on my education, and with enough time to develop my game to be at the point where today I'm beating 10/20 for 3+ BB/100 3- and 4-tabling.