Loosening up UTG+1at a loose passive table
 

SB, BB and button were all LP-P type fish, so were several others at the table. Is this too early to limp in with a marginal holding like this. I decided to limp, but having the suited king was what put me over the top to limp.

PokerStars 1/2 Omaha/8 (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $1 (All-In)</font>, BB folds, Hero ?

This is where I got indicisive as well. I am really only drawing to the second low, with no true hope of high. This is a spot to fold or does the fact SB has gone all-in mean I should try to call one SB here?

Comments/criticism on any part of the hand are more than welcome.

Vern

Standard Disclaimer, I am by no means an expert at any of this and am brand new to real money O8B.

Re: Loosening up UTG+1at a loose passive table
 

I would have folded PF for sure. If the 8 were something helpful, then I might think about limping there. I just don't think you should play a pretty bare 23 when the table isn't too loose (granted, you have three donks in, but I don't think it's enough to justify the limp).
I would have called the flop bet for sure though. It's only one SB, and based on your classification of SB as LAP, I think it's pretty unlikely he has you in both directions. Further, it's very possible that the guy has absolutely nothing (i.e. your 8s are good) since he only had 1 bet left.

Just my opinion though, I'm still learning too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Loosening up UTG+1at a loose passive table
 

You're actually drawing to the 3rd nut low on the flop (Any A2 or A3 has you beat). 23xx is a speculative holding and you're generally in trouble unless you can flop an ace. So you want to be sure you're going to get enough callers pre-flop to justify drawing to an ace on the flop. An analogy to Hold'em would be a small pocket pair--it plays well heads-up but becomes a drawing hand to a set in a multiway pot. So a pre-flop fold is probably in order here, unless the table is particularly loose/passive.

The flop is tricky. I would be inclinded to raise or fold here. Against only one other caller, your low draw may be good, in which case you'll want to protect your weak high hand. If the button cold-calls, then I would slow down and assume he has a better low or high draw.

Re: Loosening up UTG+1at a loose passive table
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have folded PF for sure. If the 8 were something helpful, then I might think about limping there. I just don't think you should play a pretty bare 23 when the table isn't too loose (granted, you have three donks in, but I don't think it's enough to justify the limp).
I would have called the flop bet for sure though. It's only one SB, and based on your classification of SB as LAP, I think it's pretty unlikely he has you in both directions. Further, it's very possible that the guy has absolutely nothing (i.e. your 8s are good) since he only had 1 bet left.

Just my opinion though, I'm still learning too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Most flops had been seeing 5-6 players in w/o a raise. 23 was worrisome, but I thought with the added K high flush possible it was worth a look at the flop. I agree however that it was marginal and I had to convince myself to limp.

On the flop I think fold/raise. I either want to get out or raise to try and get it heads up with a stack that cannot charge me any more to see a showdown. By just calling, I invite the button to call one sb, with position and he can either milk me or skate depending on how the turn helps him. The problem is folding seemed too weak and raising seemed a little too much, hence why I posted the question. After reading the other response, I think the best course of action would be to raise the flop and if button cold called 2, check to him on the turn and play it from there based on the draws that I have then.

Vern

Thanks for the response.

Vern

Re: Loosening up UTG+1at a loose passive table
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're actually drawing to the 3rd nut low on the flop (Any A2 or A3 has you beat). 23xx is a speculative holding and you're generally in trouble unless you can flop an ace. So you want to be sure you're going to get enough callers pre-flop to justify drawing to an ace on the flop. An analogy to Hold'em would be a small pocket pair--it plays well heads-up but becomes a drawing hand to a set in a multiway pot. So a pre-flop fold is probably in order here, unless the table is particularly loose/passive.

The flop is tricky. I would be inclinded to raise or fold here. Against only one other caller, your low draw may be good, in which case you'll want to protect your weak high hand. If the button cold-calls, then I would slow down and assume he has a better low or high draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

You got me on the third nut low part, I really only limped hoping to see a 5-6 to the flop and see an ace an another card to low other than 23. I was the only player with a PFR higher than 2.5 at this table, only getting 4 to the flop was a little disappointing.

Once on the flop I think raising is the best option, followed by fold then call. By raising I can possibly make it 1SB to see the turn and river if the button folds. If he calls two, then unless something drastic happens, I think I check to him on the turn.

Thanks for the response
Vern

Re: Loosening up UTG+1at a loose passive table
 

My mistake, I didn't see the button was still in. In that case, I would raise.