poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

Just wondering how some of you other successful high-stakes players weigh the attraction of full-time poker, and the attendant wins, vs. a more intellectually & emotionally satisfying career. In the midst of a bit of an existential dilemma here.

Right now I view myself as a part-time poker player. (This may be self-delusion.) I spend about 20-25 hours/week playing. It's been my primary source of income for a while now. For a comparatively long time, I made a comfortable sum basically nut-peddling at $2/$5 NL; I was playing at that level for about a year while other strong players who opposed me moved up in limits. I never did. Now I've had to; thanks to some structural changes at the site I play, I've started regularly playing bigger games, $5/$10 and $10/$20.

Anyway. Moving up out of my "comfort zone" has caused some embarrassing mistakes (yesterday alone I dropped three buyins that I had no business dropping, for a $4K hit!), but there is, of course, much more earn potential.

But to play at those levels and win significant sums, I really need to clean up my game. I've been essentially a gentleman amateur. I don't even have pokertracker or a rakeback deal, fergoshsakes. (No need to offer me one, thanks.) I have plenty of leaks, and it would take significant study, discipline, and introspection to turn myself into a consistent big winner at a level where nut peddling is not enough.

I'm also a graduate student. Poker has pulled me about a year off-schedule and if I don't get my nose to the grindstone right now I'm basically never going to finish my degree. Intellectually, I find poker interesting, but since I'm working on an English degree it's not a similar sort of thought to what I'd viewed myself spending the rest of my life doing.

My girlfriend is not a poker player but is very amused at my poker success and supportive. My parents are not so amused.

I imagine stockbrokers and other "sellouts" go through the same sort of angst when they realize/consider that they're spending a lot of time in an essentially meaningless, stressful profession whose sole point is the accumulation of money.

Since I've essentially been "kicked upstairs" to these higher limits, I feel I'm at the point where I need to either acknowledge that this is my life now and I need to get all the tools of the trade and spend my spare time and brainpower working on improving my play, or admit that it's just a hobby, ease back on the hours, focus on finishing my PhD, and treat it as a profitable sideline.

I am also reminded that the guy who got me into this game was originally a physics grad student who dropped out to play blackjack, and who has since convinced another mutual friend to drop out of his grad program to play blackjack. Seems like a common result.

Anyway, comments from those who have faced similar decisions, or found a way to balance poker and profession, would be appreciated.

(This post may amuse those who play against me, since I probably seem like a "full-time player", but, really, I'm not! Really!)

Re: poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

I was thinking about exactly this question the other day for many of the same reasons.

Even if you have the skills, to make real money (e.g. $200K per year), it seems to me that you either have to multitable like a maniac at lower limits, which isn't particularly fun and can feel a lot like data entry, or you have to play scary high limits (often 25-50 NLH or higher), which I assume is nerve wracking and often unacceptable to family members and loved ones.

Bottom line -- I am a winning player and that is good enough for me. My wife doesn't want to be married to a professional poker player and who can blame her. I can make more money (with a lot less risk) doing other things. I don't see myself ever progressing beyond gentleman amateur status, and I don't much care.

Re: poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

My advice is to drop down in limits and finish your PhD.

You can still hone your game part time.

Poker will still be around long after you have your degree.

If you then become a "pro", at least with a degree you'll have something to fall back on should you need/decide to do something besides poker.

Re: poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

My recommendation? Focus on other stuff and keep poker a sideline. There's a ton of stuff much more interesting (some of which is also more profitable) than poker.

Re: poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

Like wrestling.

Re: poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

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I was thinking about exactly this question the other day for many of the same reasons.

Even if you have the skills, to make real money (e.g. $200K per year)

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To put some of this in perspective:

Based on the last year and a half, I am certain that I could hit $200K by putting in more hours, grinding/multitabling ~$3/$6 games.

I would be aiming for significantly more than $200K if I were looking at fulltime 10/20.

Re: poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

when you look at it in the end, it depends on how you maximize expected utility, rather than maximizing expected value.

everyone's expected utility with respect to money is probably a function that's a negatively convex function. (ie, every dollar you gain is going to make you less and less happier as you gain dollars) as a result it depends on how you view the extra money you would be making as a result of going pro, versus if you were to choose a much more fulfilling career.

questions to consider could be:
how do i plan to spend the money i make?
how long do i plan to play per day, and how will playing affect my personality?
how much money can i make doing something else i enjoy, such as reading, writing novels, grading idiot 7th grade papers, etc.

also, there's a certain volatility to going pro. you never know how available games will be in the future (ie illegalization of online gambling) and your life may be dependant on where good games are. if you're not comfortable in living in places like las vegas, and atlantic city, this may not be optimal for you.

i like other suggestions of finishing your phd etc. you'll always be able to improve your game in the meantime, and you'll have a better idea after you set out further in what you want to do with your life.

but don't listen to me, i'm just a college student.

Re: poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

I play online for a living, albeit doing lower stakes than you play. Nevertheless, I have a comfortable living, especially compared to the living I had with my last job (financially speaking).

However, lifestyle wise, I would say I am less happy now than ever. I can seldom afford to take a day off, if I drop several buy ins in a day I start to get stressed, the earnings variability from week to week is tremendous.

So what are the positives? Well you might make it big time like those guys on tv. (Although remember, a number of even those guys are backed and broke much of the time.) You are your own boss. You set your own hours. The amount of money you can make is mostly capped by your ability and ambitions.

You might ask why I play if there are all these problems. Well that's a long story, but without going into too much detail, I ended up getting forced into it by losing my job for one thing, and secondly it has ended up being a lot different than I thought it would be. Also, my educational status makes it difficult to become a rising star in the business world or whatever.

But if in theory someone offered me a career where I could end up making a 100 K a year plus, I would go for it in a heartbeat rather than play poker for a living. In fact, I would go one better. If I could find a job that pays what I'm averaging a week now I'd even take it.

Hope this helps,

David
I constantly feel the need to advance in limits to hopefully be able to play less hours and have more money, but I turn into scared money at levels I'm not comfortable at.

Sure I can wake up late, but its more by necessity than choice (the games in the daytime aren't very good), compare pot sizes at different hours of the day if you don't believe me. So your schedule ends up being completely different from your friends.

I'm working on building up my credit, but not having a job will frequently interfere with you getting the things that you want if you don't have the money to spend now.

Oh and if you want to know the easiest way to make a girl run for the hills, tell her you play poker for a living. Yes, it will excite a few, but the type that most would want a serious relationship with, it will seriously dissapoint.

It will also most likely alienate you from your family, and even some friends believe it or not.

Even if you have a lot of money, a lot of it you won't be able to touch, as if you're smart you will keep a few months expenses aside and 20 buy ins for your bankroll. There is always the risk of going broke.

When you play poker for a living, you can't afford to have an off day. You have to be sharp all the time. Don't get enough rest at night? Probably a losing session the next day. Have a fight with the gf or wife? If you're smart you'll take the day off, if your stupid, you may lose several buy ins.

Health insurance? You have to pay for it? Retirement? Same thing. And don't forget that after fifty a poker player's skills decline, so hopefully you can retire by then.

Re: poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

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Oh and if you want to know the easiest way to make a girl run for the hills, tell her you play poker for a living. Yes, it will excite a few, but the type that most would want a serious relationship with, it will seriously dissapoint.

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I dont have much to add, as im in a similar yet different boat (leave of absence from college to... you guessed it... play poker) I tried renting an apartment, told real estate agents I played poker professionally... that didnt work so well.

had to stick with the line of just a student. which is partially true.

as for the women front, most dont care what i do, (although they're enthused i have more money then any guy my age) but i can imagine if i told women 2-5 years older then me they too would run for the hills.

Re: poker is a way of life vs. poker is just a hobby
 

"as for the women front, most dont care what i do, (although they're enthused i have more money then any guy my age) but i can imagine if i told women 2-5 years older then me they too would run for the hills."

Yeah I'm 25.