I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash games
 

Just recently I read about a play Marcel Luske made at the Bellagio Classic, it goes something like this, Marcel is short stacked, with T600 in chips he, makes it 550 to go 1 caller, he saves 50 dollars, to bet on the flop, hoping his opponent misses he bets the 50, and gives his opponent 2 chances to fold rather than 1, if he had shoved all in before the flop that would be only one chance.
I come across situations like this all the time in NL for example the other night I was playing in a 2/5 NL game, I had A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the SB with about $450 in front of me, a very loose, bad player, makes it 25 to go from MP, 1 limper before him both have stacks around $150, I decide to push all in, right there, the original limper thinks for a second and then folds back to the orignal raiser, he had 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] flop came something along the lines of J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], what I think I should of done is did what Marcel did, call his 25 dollar bet, and then give him a chance to fold on the flop after 2 over cards come I make a big bet and he folds? Rather I only gave him once chance to fold, he figured he was in a coin flip situation and called, and by the end he won the pot with runner runner hearts, I think if I just called, and then bet the flop he would of never drawn out on me?...Thoughts

Re: I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash games
 

The situations are totally different. In Marcel's play the villan would be getting something like 20:1 on his call and is likely making a mistake folding any hand on the flop.

If you just called and then pushed the flop villan is getting nowhere near those odds to chase his 8 and you would actually want him to call.

Re: I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash games
 

It all sounds crazy to me. In the hand with Luske, what kind of player is going to fold when the pot is laying 25:1?

I agree that pushing preflop with AJ is terrible unless your opponent is horrendous and very short stacked. Pushing on the flop sounds terrible as well. You have position. Why are you so anxious to help a loose player play correctly?

Re: I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash gam
 

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Thoughts?

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Drop down in Limits.

Re: I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash gam
 

Rather than berate you...
AJs can make you a lot of money.
AJs is not a good hand pre-flop to isolate with.
Why?
Who will call a raise and a re-raise all in?
AA-JJ will and they will have you dominated.
AK,AQ may and they will have you dominated.
10s and lower pair probably shouldn't call but if they do they're still ahead of you.
Even on as loose a table as this seems will A-10, A-x, K-x actually call?
So basically you are risking $450 (I'm assuming the BB has you covered) to win about $35.
Your goal in poker shouldn't just be take down the greatest number of pots. Your goal should be to win large pots and lose small ones.
And once again, AJs isn't a great hand.
I hope that helped.

topout

topout

Re: I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash gam
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Drop down in Limits.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was my first thought too.

Re: I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash gam
 

The scenario: you have AJs, which as has been mentioned, is not a hand to be isolating a bad player with. Even bad players will hesitate to call an allin with TOO many hands AJs dominates. But anyway, the play Luske made does not translate to this situation. With the overcards, YOU are more likely to have bad flops than he is--66% of the time you make no pair.

I get the feeling that if you HAD raised a small amount preflop and then the flop came down A84, you would have questioned whether or not pushing allin preflop would have made him fold it.

Re: I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash gam
 

The kid had 88, I flop top pair, I didnt see how much he had I had looked and it looked liek it was under 100 but he ended up having a green chip or 2 in there, I dont think I would of done it if I had seen the green chips and he caught runner runner on me hearts, for a flush.

Re: I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash games
 

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It all sounds crazy to me. In the hand with Luske, what kind of player is going to fold when the pot is laying 25:1?

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Totally unrelated to the hand in question, this post reminded me of the most amazingly stupid river laydown that I have ever seen.

I don't remember all the details, but is was something like a 8-way limped pot in a very loose 2-5 NLHE game at mirage. The flop was KJ7 with two diamonds. The SB bet the pot and got one caller and the button made it $140 and both players called. So there is $480 or so in the pot. The turn is an off-suit 3. SB checks, MP checks, and the button bets $200 and gets called in both spots. So now there is $1080 or so in the pot. The river brings a third diamond, maybe the 2 of diamonds. The SB bets $5 into a $1080 pot and MP makes a crying call. Now there is $1090 in the pot and the button goes into the tank -- finally he folds KJ (top-two) face-up despite getting 218:1. MP had some raggedy straight draw and just called fo the helluvit to humor the $5 better. The $5 better takes down a huge pot with one pair, king-rag. It was the best bluff in the history of poker! Risking $5 to win $1090. LOL!

Re: I tournament play a pro made I wonder if it would work in cash games
 

i made almost exactly the same play once with a drunk limit player who later admitted he basically forgot what game he was in...but obviously tough to fathom under the circumstances you described.