Folding overpair
 

Villain is a solid player. I folded instantly when he bet all-in. Is it too weak? I figure I am beaten more than 2/3 or the time here.

If it had been a very loose player, does it alter the situation?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

UTG (t885)
Hero (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
MP1 (t960)
MP2 (t790)
MP3 (t655)
CO (t775)
Button (t805)
SB (t730)
BB (t800)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t45</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls t45, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls t30.

Flop: (t145) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t110</font>, MP3 folds, BB calls t110.

Turn: (t365) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t645 (All-In)</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1010

Re: Folding overpair
 

I, personally, could almost never laydown KK without an ace on the board. Unless this solid player is really good and tight early, I don't fold. If BB is loose, the call becomes a no-brainer.

Re: Folding overpair
 

thats pretty tight...but i make folds like that often

you have plenty to go on...no sense busting now...even fishy players make that move and i'll fold...i take betting into me on the turn as two pair....he just hit two pair....or flopped a set and now that its heads up he'll bet into you.

Nice fold.

Degen

Re: Folding overpair
 

this is very very very bad advice

Degen

Re: Folding overpair
 

Primarily, I would say to raise larger PF. I like the 3x later on, but I've found that in the early rounds, you almost need to bet 75-100 chips with your excellent hands to get the information you need, and to drive out people just looking for draws. Then, when the flop comes without an A, you're looking really good against anyone who called that much PF.

My thoughts post flop are contingent on the confidence of your read. This early in a game, I'm not sure I'd have that much confidence, but if you had previous notes on the guy, it may make sense. Also, if this was a $50 or greater, that may matter. I play at lower levels, and think that you will win this call more often than you will lose at those tables. So, I'd call unless I was confident that this player wouldn't do this with just top pair. I could totally see someone taking this line with AQ or even KQ. Just my opinion there.

Re: Folding overpair
 

If he is VERY loose (especially if this is low buy-in) I call. BTW, make this hand easier by raising more. I'd rather have everyone fold then be playing this hand out of posistion against many callers.

Also, think before folding, even if you consider it auto fold. Don't give people the impression they can push you arround. They will remember it come blind stealing time.

Re: Folding overpair
 

In a cash game Id make the call, but in a tournament Id pick a better spot. He could have QA, but since its early in the tournament I presume you dont have solid reads on the player. For that reason Id fold, and watch him/her closely to see what type of player he/she is. Raise more preflop

Re: Folding overpair
 

I phrased it poorly. I meant to say I decided to fold instantly. I try to take the same time for action no matter what (with the inevitable variance that comes with mutlitabling).

And you are probably right about raising more preflop. Against players like this, I think there is a good chance he will lay down TT for a larger bet (this was the second or third hand in the SnG). This guy is normally very tight about betting all his chips in level 1.

The problem with big raises preflop with AA, KK etc in level one is that you start to doubt the sanity of the strategy after picking up the blinds a few times in a row. Getting the balance right is hard sometimes.

Re: Folding overpair
 

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with big raises preflop with AA, KK etc in level one is that you start to doubt the sanity of the strategy after picking up the blinds a few times in a row.

[/ QUOTE ] = +t45. ..this play = -t155

..understand that your ideal situation is to get chips in the middle PF with a solid bet, and play HU against a very strong hand that is second best. After villan calls a solid PF raise, it allows you to narrow the range of hands they are on and simplifies your post-flop play.

Another good reason to make a solid PF bet from EP in the first few hands of the tourney is to give you a read on the relative tightness/looseness of the table.

What hand did you put him on before you folded? (and would he still have played that hand for +/- t75 PF?)

Re: Folding overpair
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with big raises preflop with AA, KK etc in level one is that you start to doubt the sanity of the strategy after picking up the blinds a few times in a row.

[/ QUOTE ] = +t45. ..this play = -t155

..understand that your ideal situation is to get chips in the middle PF with a solid bet, and play HU against a very strong hand that is second best. After villan calls a solid PF raise, it allows you to narrow the range of hands they are on and simplifies your post-flop play.

Another good reason to make a solid PF bet from EP in the first few hands of the tourney is to give you a read on the relative tightness/looseness of the table.

What hand did you put him on before you folded? (and would he still have played that hand for +/- t75 PF?)

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't evaluate a strategy from a single hand. Today I have doubled up in level one three times with overpairs. Just liked the situations more than I did here.

The hand where his play makes most sense to me is TT (possibly 44 and QQ), if he was scared of the board at the turn and didn't want to risk it being checked through if he would attempt a checkraise. Thus the bet he would have to make to protect himself from a draw is large enough to warrant him going all-in on the turn. I don't think he would play AQ that way, but of course I may be wrong.

Anyway, it's not particularly for his sake I would stick to 3BB bet here. It is for all the other level 1 players that are willing to call the bet with much worse hands (that they would fold if the bet was 5BB).

Anyway, I am not saying my play here is optimal and I would definately have an easier time playing against solid players if I increased the bet preflop.