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- - QTs from the BB (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=221637)

Pacific Poker 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 fold, CO calls, Button calls, SB folds, BB (poster) calls.

Flop: (10.5 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero raises, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (15 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, CO calls, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

River: (30.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+1 raises, CO calls, Hero folds, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 36.50 BB

Final Pot: $36.50

Results in white below:
UTG+1 (Ks, 4s) shows a fullhouse Kings full of sevens
CO mucks
UTG (Ks, Ah) shows a fullhouse Kings full of sevens

On the turn I thought there is a chance that there isn't a boat out there,
only someone having a K and with my OESD I always got the right odds to call in this huge pot.
Would you have played it differently?

Re: QTs from the BB

coding missed your flop call after it's capped.

I'd fold the turn when it's 2 back to me. Especially when you consider it can be (and was) 3bet behind you.

Regards,
Pete Harris

Re: QTs from the BB

I think the turn is fine, a lot of people cap with just trips as you thought. At a tougher table (with reads) you might be a little more worried, but if it's typical that's an okay assumption. You did have odds to call in this huge pot for sure.

Let's talk about yours OESD outs first. I'm not exactly sure on how Ed Miller put it, but you can't count 8 outs there because of the flush draw. I think put the 9s and As at half an out each, so that's 7 outs. UTG+1's limp-reraise line has me thinking nut flush draw, so I'd be a little worried.

Re: QTs from the BB

I'm willing to give up on this big pot when it's two back to me (the first time) on the turn, I may be drawing dead already and all my A outs as well as the spade outs are tainted. Being stuck in the middle like that sucks.

Re: QTs from the BB

This is tough. You are getting odds for your draw the whole way, but I think that given UTG's action you may be drawing to the 2nd best hand a significant percent of the time after the K falls on the turn.

Calling 2 cold on the turn you have to expect the possibility that it will be capped, which means you're barely getting 7:1 for your 4 BB's and you only have six clean outs to the straight. Even if the straight is a guaranteed winner you're just barely getting the pot odds. I think I fold to the turn raise here.

Re: QTs from the BB

Guys, the A outs fill up AK and AA so be careful on what you're calling clean outs. This is not to mention that you may be dead already so you have absolutely zero clean outs on the turn.

Re: QTs from the BB

[ QUOTE ]
Guys, the A outs fill up AK and AA so be careful on what you're calling clean outs. This is not to mention that you may be dead already so you have absolutely zero clean outs on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I realized just after the hand. A little too late.
On the turn my thoughts were just "he doesn't have a boat", but I wasn't thinking of the change of my outs from the flop to the turn.

When I had 7.5 cleans outs on the flop I had no really clean outs (well, let's say no boat and 3 cleans outs, the nines) on the turn.

After UTGs flop 3-bet I put him on AK, but it didn't bother me that much, cause I was drawing to the nuts. After the board paired on the turn and the pot was so huge I forgot my thinking on the flop.

Too bad