JJ in SB ???
 

Paradise: $1/2

A late-position player (LP, 2 off the button) open-raises. I re-raise i the small blind w/ JdJh. LP calls. 2 players an 6.5 small bets in the pot:

FLOP: [ Qd Ad 4h ]

I bet - LP raises - I fold !?

How do you like my play ? Any comments appreciated !

Thanks, BB King's ... formerly known as the pokerplayer formerly known as Jack

Re: JJ in SB ???
 

Good fold.


PokerPrince

Re: JJ in SB ???
 

Do you know him well enough to believe he could open raise w/Kxs? Could he be calling your reraise thinking you're defending your blind against a steal? You know he doesn't have Kd Jd, or Jd Td. My guess is that unless you're sure he's an aggressive enough player to do the above, he's already got you beat and it's possible you're drawing dead. I think your fold was fine.

Re: JJ in SB ???
 

Another variation may be to just call pre-flop since you do not have position and check-raise the flop.

Good fold though, that is not a good flop for jacks.

Re: JJ in SB ???
 

This may be disputed, but I think betting out on the flop is the worst thing you can do in this hand. There are already 6.5 SB in the pot, and a single bet is probably not going to make the LP raiser fold. If he calls, it's very hard to tell where to go from there. He could easily be on a flush draw, smaller pocket pair, or could also be timidly playing a Q or a weak A.

I think it would have been better to check-raise the flop. This move is much stronger than betting out. At the expense of a small bet, you give yourself a chance of winning the pot right away, whereas you had little or no chance of winning the pot right away before. (Of course, proceeding from here if he calls is also very difficult, unless you get a J on the turn...)

Re: JJ in SB ???
 

Short answer: bet the flop and fold to a raise.

Long answer:

It depends on LPs playing style. There are certain players who simply will not fold after they have raised pre-flop. It damages their machismo image to back down after already showing strength and would raise you on the flop almost automatically. Against these types of players, betting the flop is never a good idea - check fold is better.

However, you can condition these players to trap quite a bit of money out of them when you're holding. More often than not, you'll be betting/folding, checking/folding to these guys, so when you do have a hand (like top pair, best kicker on a reasonably safe board) and you're in the same spot, you have several options.

1) Bet/reraise - if he caps, bet turn
2) checkraise- and expect him to make it three, then you cap
3) check/call - then checkraise the turn, reraise as necessary

against super aggressive opponents who are raising with too many hands, you have to take your chances with top pair/best kicker (assuming you're heads up) because you'll get a lot of value out of these hands as the aggressive player will happily cap it with 88 on an A Q 4 board.

Re: JJ in SB ???
 

Can you give me a few hands that would bet the flop and fold to a raise but wouldn't fold to a bet?

Re: JJ in SB ???
 

The basic idea was that there are hands that will not fold to a bet but might fold to
a check-raise.

This morning, I was thinking that an agressive player holding any pocket pair or any Q
might bet out on this flop to try to drive you off whatever hand you had if checked to.
The 3-bet preflop and check-raise flop with that board really looks like you've got a
huge holding (AQ, AK, AA) since you're not worried about giving a free card. Those
hands above would probably fold. If you are not 3-bet, you see the turn card, but
unlike bet-calling, you are in control of the hand and not the other way around.

(If the player were really agressive, then the preflop raise can be anything, and the
flop bet could be a much wider variety of hands.)

By going for a check-raise, there's a chance that you might see a free card on the
turn, too, giving you a free chance at your 2-outer. (If the 3-bet has caused your
opponent to be timid about his Qxs).

Those were my rationales as I was quickly typing up my response before heading off.
Now that I've had more time to think about it, I'm not quite as sure how much better
this move is, but I still think it's better than betting out. My gut reaction to the flop
raise was that maybe he's just taking a shot at the pot. This is why I like the check-
raise more, since it really puts the heat on your opponent and not the other way
around (very few players would 'take a shot' by 3-betting a flop against a preflop
3-bet).

I welcome any thoughts you have on this as I'm not fully confident this is the better of
the two plans.

Thanks All !!! n/t