when can i make a laydown like this??
 

Well actually, i'd like 2 of them but only 1 id call a "legitimate" laydown.

playing party 30/60. great fishy limps, i iso-raise KQo pretty early (UTG+2). flop comes Ks7c3h. he bets i raise he calls.

turn blanks off. same action.

river comes Jd. he bets. i want to fold KNOWING he has KJo without a question in my mind (hed raise it if it were suited). but i call and lo and behold. KJo...enon told me i should feel great about it and make it 100% of the time. i agreed of course so thats notthe real one...but still "coulda" folded.

HERE's the real laydown i wanted to make.

stars 30/60 game. 1 limper, 1 raiser, 1 3bettor (no info except 3bettor is a little loose aggro). i cap with AsAc. loose bb calls 3 cold all call.

flop comes Ks5cXx. checked to limper who bets, raiser calls 3bettor raises i 3bet. flop bettor and raiser call.

3 to the turn. 7c. checked to me i bet 1 caller and now the flop raiser checkraises. i look at the board, look at the action and say, "hes got AcKc" and 3bet, both call.

river comes 3c or some low club. check, AcKc guy bets and i really want to fold. i know im beat here. and i mean flush vs. pair beat. but i look at the pot (1377), look at the size of the bet ($60). and i think about enon and how i say to him "yea i make mistakes, but i almost never make pot costing ones" and i call.

comments...when, if ever, can i fold on the river if i KNOW im beat?

-Barron

Re: when can i make a laydown like this??
 

whenever you feel comfortable doing so. i think you dont feel comfortable laying down hands because the players on these forums never lay down a hand when they have 10:1+ odds with even ace high. getting 20:1 on AA, if you dont think your hand is good here 5% of the time then lay it down. its that simple.

Re: when can i make a laydown like this??
 

[ QUOTE ]
i cap with AsAc

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"hes got AcKc"

[/ QUOTE ]

assuming that there really is only one Ac, and you dont have it, i dont think this is a terrible laydown, but im not making it against a virtual unknown.

peace

john nickle

obvious type...AsAx not Ac
 

[ QUOTE ]
whenever you feel comfortable doing so. i think you dont feel comfortable laying down hands because the players on these forums never lay down a hand when they have 10:1+ odds with even ace high. getting 20:1 on AA, if you dont think your hand is good here 5% of the time then lay it down. its that simple.

[/ QUOTE ]

well in that case, my river call was a mistake. because i was 99.99999999% sure he had AcKc...

turns out i was WRONG b/c he had KcQc...same thing for FAIAP

-Barron

Re: when can i make a laydown like this??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i cap with AsAc

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"hes got AcKc"

[/ QUOTE ]

assuming that there really is only one Ac, and you dont have it, i dont think this is a terrible laydown, but im not making it against a virtual unknown.

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i kinda feel now i coulda laid this down...i blame enon. i hate you enon.

and john, it was an obvious typo, so when i want your five cents...i'll ask.

-Barron

Re: when can i make a laydown like this??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i cap with AsAc

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
"hes got AcKc"

[/ QUOTE ]

assuming that there really is only one Ac, and you dont have it, i dont think this is a terrible laydown, but im not making it against a virtual unknown.

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i kinda feel now i coulda laid this down...i blame enon. i hate you enon.

and john, it was an obvious typo, so when i want your five cents...i'll ask.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

my five cents is worthless, who would ever want it?

Obviously given the way the hand played out, you can make this fold and nearly everytime feel great about it, but remember the fur coat dilemma. Its not a fold i want to get into the habit of making.

peace

john nickle

Re: when can i make a laydown like this??
 

Hi Barron,

I’d be way more likely to fold the second hand than the first hand.

On the second hand, I think maybe a general mistake you might be making is in trying too hard to figure out exactly HOW you are beat, instead of just trying to figure out IF you are beat.

“well in that case, my river call was a mistake. because i was 99.99999999% sure he had AcKc...turns out i was WRONG b/c he had KcQc..”

You were not “wrong” unless you feel that it’s only correct to fold when you can name the other guy’s cards exactly. You could have lost to any of four sets and any flush.

“i was 99.99999999% sure ..."

Then you were one hundred million times more sure than you needed to be for a fold to be correct.

“when, if ever, can i fold on the river if i KNOW im beat?”

Anytime there’s a bet.

Tommy

Re: when can i make a laydown like this??
 

it's really not that easy to be 95% sure of something

Re: when can i make a laydown like this??
 

I would think he has KK more often than he has AKs. you saying you put him on AcKc without mentioning KK alone makes me think you're being results oriented. big laydowns are really really hard to make unless you're against someone who you know really well or in a multiway pot.

Re: when can i make a laydown like this??
 

"but remember the fur coat dilemma"

What's that?