Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

They say bad cards are real easy to play correctly (fold). So are great cards. It is those cards that look real nice but are not, that will get you.

I now have a bit over 25K hands recorded in Poker Tracker split between 2-4 and 3-6. In my effort to find leaks and improve my game I am reviewing my play.

My number one most profitable hand is AA - well no surprise there, but going down to the bottom I see the lowest nets (biggest loses) in the following 3 starting hands:

1- KTo
2- KJo
3- Q8o

Observations: I am still reviewing, but I will certainly tighten up with K10 and KJ especially out of position, and release sooner...

The Q8o I have 0% VPIP with - never once put money in the pot voluntarily. Still analyzing, but my gut is telling me I too often make a 2nd best with the hand in the BB and take it to far. Weakly hitting hands that I normally wouldn't play is definitely a leak of mine.

So what are your 3 worst starting hands? - everybody has them.

Re: Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

33, 42o, and 43o. My VPIP for the last two is 0. 33 is around 50%. I think I'm just unlucky with 33 in my sample size, becauase I lose almost 1.5 BB/hand when I play them.

Re: Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

over the last ~3000 hands my biggest losers are AKo, AKs, JJ, 77, and AQs. With my AK lately it seems I never hit the flop unless someone else hits their set, then I make two pair.

Re: Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

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my biggest losers are AKo

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Another surprising fact was that in 25K hands AKo for me was break even -arrg, I just double checked and its now down 60$. I know I've lost a few big pots with Big Slick over the last couple of days.

The sample size for any one hand is still small enough that that a couple of hands can significantly affect the outcome. But by taking AKo too far, especially when you don't hit, or the board tells you you're beat it certainly has the potential to be a big leak.

Re: Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!!!!! 25,000 hands is nothing for this kind of analysis. 250,000 hands is insufficient for this kind of analysis.

Now that that is out of the way: Yes, KTo is possibly the most overrated hand in holdem. And I can't remember the last time I played Q8o outside of the blinds in a full game. (Then again, I am super tight by the standards of this board: VP$IP = 16%.)

Re: Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

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SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!!!!! 25,000 hands is nothing for this kind of analysis. 250,000 hands is insufficient for this kind of analysis.

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yup


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Now that that is out of the way: Yes, KTo is possibly the most overrated hand in holdem.

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yup

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(Then again, I am super tight by the standards of this board: VP$IP = 16%.)

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that's not super tight. super tight is 12 or 13. 16 is average

Re: Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

[ QUOTE ]
SMALL SAMPLE SIZE!!!!!! 25,000 hands is nothing for this kind of analysis. 250,000 hands is insufficient for this kind of analysis.


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Are you suggesting that a person not review their results until they have >250K hands in the database? Then why bother to have the tool at all. I think not.

While the sample size is admitidly small, reviewing has lots of value, and you can spot trends. If I was playing K10 optimally, while it may not be profitable due to short term variance or the long term lack of potential for the hand, you would not expect it to be at the top of the worst list.

There will always be a hand at the top of the worst list, but unless you are playing perfectly, the hands that top that list are probably being played sub-optimally.

I have had K10o 235 times in this period. While not a large sample, it is certainly big enough to infer a few things.

Re: Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

OK, we know the sample size is small. We know that K10 is a trap hand / overrated, and my results are bearing that out and I need to improve.

We even know that you should 'not be results oriented', but instead look at the 'quality of your play'.

Now that that is out of the way,

What are your worst three starting hands - results wise?

Re: Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

any two i get in the blinds

Re: Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?
 

Now that answer I like [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]