TPGK: raise flop or raise turn?
 

Hi. A friend and I were talking last night about the best way to play top pair with a good kicker on a nonthreatening flop. Specifically, we were discussing the following situation:

Limit hold'em, full table, players in this hand (besides us) are mediocre.

We have AJo on the button. MP player limps, we raise, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: AT4 rainbow. BB checks, MP checks, we bet, BB checkraises, MP folds, we __?__.

The discussion is whether we should 3-bet here or whether we should wait until the turn to raise.

I initially said to 3-bet it, but he pointed out that we're probably ahead and will be on the turn too. If we 3-bet, this is like screaming "I have a big ace" and the BB will check-fold the turn if he doesn't improve. By just calling, there's a good chance BB will read us for a bluff and bet the turn, and we can raise then to make more money.

The logic for 3-betting is basically that we have the best hand a lot of the time here and the MP player will almost certainly call a 3-bet, so we'll make 2 small bets on the flop, which is the same as 1 big bet on the turn, but I can't see how we actually make MORE by 3-betting, even though it just feels right to me.

Also, if BB is just trying to steal, calling and letting him bet the turn is clearly better.

Um, the pot isn't that big, but it's not miniscule either, I guess.

It also seems like MP matters a lot, but it swings us towards calling, because now we have somebody else to trap for two bets on the turn.

Finally, how player-dependent is this?

This is the type of hand that I tend to autoraise and I'm not sure if my thinking is right. I sometimes play with too much thoughtless agression, i.e., "best hand"==>"bet out." My friend sometimes plays too tricky headsup with good-but-not-monster holdings. This is an example of how we can disagree [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for the help.

Re: TPGK: raise flop or raise turn?
 

3-bet on the flop.

It is more likely you'll get a calldown by a weaker ace or 2nd pair if you 3-bet the flop then if you smooth-call and raise on the turn, as that type of play screams "monster."

Aggressive flop action tends to tie people to the pot. Likewise, if you raise on the turn and get 3-bet now you're really in a tough spot because a lot of the times you're destroyed, yet, a lot of the times they'll have a two pair to which you're still drawing very live against (and therefore have to call their turn reraise).

Re: TPGK: raise flop or raise turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
3-bet on the flop.

It is more likely you'll get a calldown by a weaker ace or 2nd pair if you 3-bet the flop then if you smooth-call and raise on the turn, as that type of play screams "monster."

Aggressive flop action tends to tie people to the pot. Likewise, if you raise on the turn and get 3-bet now you're really in a tough spot because a lot of the times you're destroyed, yet, a lot of the times they'll have a two pair to which you're still drawing very live against (and therefore have to call their turn reraise).

[/ QUOTE ]

So which hands do you think are the cutoff for waiting for the turn, overpair QQ+?Bottom two?