Presence Of \"Evil?\"
 

Is God willing to prevent evil, but, unable?
Then that would mean he's not omnipotent, right?
Or, is he able, but, not willing.
Which would mean he's malevolent.
Or, is he neither able, nor, willing, in which case why do we call him God?

I've asked this question a couple of times to some Christians that I've known, and haven't received a lot of logically sound answers, shall we say.

I've heard it all boils down to free-choice. I've heard he's a jealous God. Look

In which I case I ask them then their God is Jealous and maleovelnt which are qualities inherent in a perfect being?

Since Sklansky brought up the whole general topics, I just thought I through out this horseshoe to see what people thought. :-)

Re: Presence Of \"Evil?\"
 

Evil is simply a label that humans use to reflect something that they do not consider "Good".

Can't have one without the other.

The extra goo that goes with "Evil" is just stuff that has built up over time through human lore and misunderstanding.

Re: Presence Of \"Evil?\"
 

I took a really really good course once titled "the problem of evil" that focused on this question in great depth.

There have been many many attempts to work out the issue you present and frankly every "solution" has some aspect of it that someone doesn't like.

This is historically one of the toughests questions in christian theology . . . and frankly, will continue to be something that theologians beat their heads against for some time.

Re: Presence Of \"Evil?\"
 

I have heard the origins of the word "sin" come from an archery term meaning to miss the mark. I like that idea better than the idea of evil. Mistakes, or missing the mark, even intentional mistakes are the individual's way to test and see what works best. We also experience the consequences of those mistakes.

The "choices" made by a slave are not really choices. We have to have free will to be able to enjoy the rewards of making good choices.

If you allow that God is Good, and God is All there is, then there doesn't seem to be room for "evil," but errors are God's way of allowing us the free will to understand the way to reach paradise.

Re: Presence Of \"Evil?\"
 

Assuming your statements are correct:

1)"God is Good"
2)"God is All there is"
3)"Errors are God's way of allowing us the free will to understand the way to reach paradise."
4) The "choices" made by a slave are not really choices.


Let's take for example, Sodom & Gomorrah:
"Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens" Genesis 19:24.

"Turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly" II Peter 2:6.

Assuming this is correct, wraith, vengenace, jealousy and retribution are god-like traits. Our choices aren't really
"choices," but, decisions that can ultimately lead to one outcome to worship God, making us "slaves."

Re: Presence Of \"Evil?\"
 

one could argue that the behaviors caused the destruction, as a logical extension of poor choices. also, the old testament God of "wraith[sic], vengenace, jealousy and retribution" may be human intervention in the history books that enable people to point fingers in hindsight.

I have not claimed that the Bible was the total word of God, complete and unadulterated. However, I believe there is much that is remarkably accurate considering the times and the length of time that it has endured.

Perhaps if you live a life of responsibility and accept the daily consequences of your own actions, or even the chance that the miserable reality you see others having isn't "reality" unless they choose it.

In other words, what you perceive for others isn't what they perceive. Our job is to respond appropriately to what we perceive. If we perceive inequity and do nothing about it, that is a choice WE make. There is nothing to prove that the squalor exists outside our mind, or the collective mind that chooses to perceive that "reality."

Sorry if this isn't clear, but the concept of multiple realities is so much a part of the "choice" philosophy, that it is hard to discuss the topic without a common understanding. Is this something you are in agreement with, or at least acknowledge as possible?

Free Will Theodicy
 

This is a term one will encounter in philosophy texts/classes, that IMO is the best answer to the problem of evil.
The idea is this: God chooses for us to have free-will. For some reason this is necessary to his plan. Maybe this life is a test and only those who do well get to move on. Maybe we have to learn things in this life, to prepare us for the next. At any rate, our "good" choices would be meaningless if we did not have the option of making "bad" or "evil" choices instead.
Therefore, God grants us free-will, because it's the only way our lives can have any point. He accepts that the side-effect of this is that some of us will choose to do rotten things.

Hope that helps.

BTW- I'm not trying to convince you about God. I'm an undecided myself. This is just the best argument I've found.

Re: Presence Of \"Evil?\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have not claimed that the Bible was the total word of God, complete and unadulterated. However, I believe there is much that is remarkably accurate considering the times and the length of time that it has endured.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know which part is which? Which is the God part and wihich is the human part?

If you can't tell the difference, but know that the bible was altered, then how can you trust any of it?

Dov

Re: Presence Of \"Evil?\"
 

Main Entry: jeal·ous
Pronunciation: 'je-l&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English jelous, from Old French, from (assumed) Vulgar Latin zelosus, from Late Latin zelus zeal -- more at ZEAL
1 a : intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfulness
3 : vigilant in guarding a possession

Have you tried asking Him? [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Presence Of \"Evil?\"
 

The way any linguist or scientist does...by comparing to archaelogical and parallel societal remains.

The things that are left in the archaeological record are amazing when you look in the right places. Recently we are looking underwater, which often is the right place to check for human remains, as riverbanks and ocean fronts change even in historical times. But when you get serious about checking religious beliefs, they seem to have a very similar central core of beliefs and then a bunch of society specific beliefs that get tacked on by people who want to keep power.