Stupid, stupid stupid
 

OK here is the height of stupid on my part. This is the $3 rebuy to the PS Sunday $250K. I have been at the same table the whole time, never moved once, and most of the players on the table have been here with me the whole time, minus a few I busted out that didn't rebuy. I come out of the rebuy/add-on in 4th, would have been first but for a couple of stacks taking the add-on. A few hands after the break I get a fish all-in with his A7o against my AKo on a TPTK hand and take 1st again.

I have been playing TAG, very aggressive post flop. I haven't shown down one bad hand, I took a couple of bad beats, but showed that I was only playing top hands. The rest of the table was pretty, well "not so good" playing lots of TP weak kicker, any ace type poker. I was in command of the table.

So what do I do instead of switching gears to conservitive mode, stealing to stay ahead of the blinds and only committing a significant percentage of my stack when I am way ahead and know it? I get greedy...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP3 (t9550)
CO (t8475)
<font color="C00000">Button (t14223)</font>
SB (t3725)
BB (t8235)
<font color="C00000">Hero (t27032)</font>
UTG+1 (t13025)
<font color="C00000">MP1 (t4345)</font>
MP2 (t10745)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t450</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls t450, MP2 folds, MP3 calls t450, CO folds, Button calls t450, SB folds, BB calls t300.

These guys know from my raise that I have a good hand. I was rather surprised I got as many callers as I did, but thinking back, they where likely thinking steal or had not completely switched from rebuy mode. I think I should have raised more from UTG to say T1000 or so.

Flop: (t2325) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t1500</font>, MP1 calls t1500, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t4200</font>, BB folds, Hero calls t2700, MP1 calls t2395 (All-In).

Turn: (t14620) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets t1500</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t9573</font>, Hero calls t8073.

I knew I was beat here, that he had the 4. I went ahead and called with the implied odds of hitting the nut flush and having an overwhelming lead to the point I could have sat out the rest of the tournament and got a seat. But NO I had to get stupid! There was no need to risk it.

River: (t33766) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t33766
<font color="green">Main Pot: t14010 (t14010), between Button, Hero and MP1.</font> &gt; <font color="green">Pot won by Button (t14010).</font>
<font color="green">Pot 2: t19756 (t19756), between Button and Hero.</font> &gt; <font color="green">Pot won by Button (t19756).</font>

Results below: <font color="green">
Hero has Ks As (one pair, fours).
MP1 has Th Tc (two pair, tens and fours).
Button has 4c Ac (three of a kind, fours).
Outcome: Button wins t33766. </font>

This hand was the start of a crash and burn tilt. I just let it get to me, which is even more stupid than the play. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Re: Stupid, stupid stupid
 

I think if you were playing a cash game you played the hand OK. However in a tournament the downside risk is alot greater because you can't simply put more money on the table. That being said I think your chips are going in one way or another on this flop. If you think moving all in on the flop has some chance of making the other players fold then I would seriously consider that option. You have enough chips already that you don't need to win a monster pot. So my view is that going all in here might be the better play. Although in this particular hand the result is most likely the same.

BTW - You didn't say how many players were left and how many seats were paid. If you were really near the end then a fold is in order.

Re: Stupid, stupid stupid
 

I think one of the major pitalls of playing poker is that it can breed contempt for others. I see it here a lot, and I see it in the people I play with. They play "good" cards and they play them hard, and somehow this gets translated in their mind to "I'm a better person than these "fish", I deserve to win."

One of the things about aggressive poker is that it can get your adrenaline going, the old "fight or flight" reaction. Problem with having been aggressive is that you have a propensity for fight, not flight. I fall into this trap a lot.

So here you have a hand where you've only got a piece of the flop, a draw to not necessarily the nuts, and your opponent is screaming at you that he has you beat, even if you did open with pocket aces.

Did you listen? Well, maybe you did. Did you believe him? well, you said you did. Did you think, "I'm in a tournament, my goal is to play my best and do as well as I can"? It doesn't sound like it. It sounded like you were thinking "My goal is to win this hand so I can coast." When you lost, did you think "What can I learn about my opponent from how he played this hand, and what did I learn about how I can improve my play?" No, you did not. You thought "How does this hand make me feel?", and indulged in those feelings. "I was beaten by somebody I hold in contempt, I'm so good I should have won, I'm angry about that, I think I'll blow off all my good play up till this one hand because I'm an angry man."

I'm not preaching at you, I'm not intending to, anyway, I trap myself this way all too many times. If I knew how to prevent it I would tell you. I got a lot of insight from 'The Zen of Poker' and 'The Tao of Poker', I would recommend them to you.

I think, just from reading your post, that less contempt for others and more thinking "What can I learn from this?" will help you avoid the self-destruction you experienced this time.

I wish you success.

Regards,

Gar

Re: Stupid, stupid stupid
 

You have to decide if he has the 4 right then when he raises you on the flop. If you think he has it, fold. If you don't, push. I don't like calling here because you will face a big bet on the turn no matter what.

Re: Stupid, stupid stupid
 

Very good, and interesting, post by Gar there.

I agree that once you flat called the raise, you were admitting defeat unimproved - yet you played it till the bitter end.

Re: Stupid, stupid stupid
 

[ QUOTE ]
That being said I think your chips are going in one way or another on this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. He made a very modest bet both pre and post flop. Enough to get the information he was looking for. Stacks at this point are very deep.

Flop - you bet about 2/3 of the pot. Then you got CALLED AND RAISED! This should be setting off an alarm in your head. the MP is probably going all in as he is now pot committed. If you release here you still have a great stack.

Turn - as you said you knew you were beat. As i mentioned MP is all in, and the button is still raising. The side pot isn't that big, so I don't think it's on a bluff.

I think this is an easy fold post flop.

What an excellent post
 

I need to print this and keep it next to me at all times. I fall into this trap way too often.

Re: Stupid, stupid stupid
 

the difference most haven't touched on - but you mention - is that this isn't a regular tourney. It doesn't matter how big your stack is when you get to the winning places; everyone gets the same prize. You can just sail into a spot with the big stack. You didn't actually have to play any more poker really.

If I'd playede the AKs, I'da prob limped, instead of creating a pot out of posn.

Re: Stupid, stupid stupid
 

Gar, you hit the nail right on the head. I have been working on it, and likely would have been "OK" after if it wasn't for the nasty elements cheering the winner and the winner going off on me for this hand. Turned off the chat, and played fairly well, but the feelings where not gone, just slightly surpressed, and of course rose up at the wrong times. Most of the time, the "table talk" has no effect on me other than cluing me in on people on tilt, something hit me wrong with this group.

I really do not have a idea/image of being that much better per say, but I just get frustrated. You take a lot of time and effort to learn the game, there is so much to learn (especially after "thinking" you knew how to play only to find out that you didn't know anything), then to see people jumping with no real idea of odds, betting paterns, position etc, etc, decide to "what the heck, I will call the big raise because that's what the pros do on TV after all it's suited and an ace!" and then hit, well it's frustrating. Anytime you bust your butt to do something, then gain some success, only to have it thrown back in your face, is when the emotional part of us reacts, generally not positively.

I agree the correct response needs to be a "learning opurtunity", and it has been, I have been going over the hands after that one, looked at the play, and marked what was effected and what was good.

I wanted to share this, both from a stand point of learning from the 2+2 crew (lord knows there are monster in the waters here [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]), and as a learning example for others... "Do NOT let things get out of control".

As to numbers... we were maybe 5 mins into the second hour with ~250 left competing for ~20 seats.

All things considered I think I should have played it either...

a) Raised to T1000 preflop to drive out the TT and A4s hands. But I honestly do not think either the MP or button players would have folded to any bet with what they had. The times I was stealing was with the other TAG player at the table limping, everyone want out of our way.

or

b) Folded preflop, I did not have a great feeling, likely do to the game conditions and position on the table. With the people still not really making the shift to post rebuy play. The possible PP behind me, etc, etc.

or

c) Limped preflop to see if I could catch a peice of it. But considering the aggressive nature of the MP player he would have put in a big raise I would likely would have to call it with such a strong hand preflop.

Re: Stupid, stupid stupid
 

FWIW - I think you played it fine up until you got called and raised. Don't be a weak tight with AKs. Just don't think it's always the nuts after the flop either.