Foxwoods 10/20
 

Great Foxwoods 10/20 game (saturday evening).
Most flops are seen 5 to 8 handed for one bet. At the time I may have a supertight-weak image. I have been getting no cards whatsoever and I've had to make river folds the times I've gotten that far.
I have been having a bad night and feel I am not playing well.

Girl who plays every hand calls, LAG MP calls, tight-passive-bad old lady calls on the button, new player who seems to be a decent TAG player completes the SB and I check in the BB with AQo.

Flop comes down QT6 two clubs, one spade.
SB checks, I bet, everyone calls.

Turn comes 3s.
SB checks, I bet, only old lady button and SB call.

River card is the As.
SB checks, I bet. Old lady raises. I am frustrated and make a big deal to the player on my left about how I know she has JK though there is one other hand that she could very likely have. SB then 3-bets and I fold. Old lady throws her cards away in disgust and they flip over showing ATo.
SB mucks.

Any comments?

Re: Foxwoods 10/20
 

I would have raised preflop. Given that you didn't I would have checkraised the flop. I wouldn't have folded for one bet on the river even if the SB coldcalled. Folding for two bets seems clear.

Re: Foxwoods 10/20
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have folded for one bet on the river even if the SB coldcalled. Folding for two bets seems clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not folding this for two bets, either. ESPECIALLY when I've been grousing about my hand to the person on my left and the raiser is to my immediate right.

SpaceAce

Re: Foxwoods 10/20
 

Raise pre-flop.

Check-raise the flop.

If you're going to fold to a raise or two, check the river and call away with top two.

This is a textbook Foxwoods gambit that shouldn't've lost you anything -- but should've gained you a whole lot.


Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Foxwoods 10/20
 

hi bx

you're in over your head. this game is not a good one for you to be in. as long as that SB is in there, you will lose. you can't beat that guy.

did you throw away the winner? well, that's over-shadowed by the fact that you are throwing away the game. there's no harm in keeping your losses to a minimum, but when that can no longer be done, it's time to find another less tougher game. you should have turned that SB into chopped liver many rounds ago.

Re: Foxwoods 10/20
 

As usual, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Preflop, I considered raising, and I agree that I should have.

I considered checkraising also but didn't because I didn't want it to be checked through - lots of flops had been checked through.

I think that, had I kept my mouth shut the whole time, folding the river the way I played it would be correct - especially at foxwoods. I said the SB was TAG but that is for foxwoods standards. There was a hand earlier where he had AA and then checkcalled the turn after being raised on the flop. (nonthreatening draw heavy board) He claimed he was going to raise the river when I asked him why he didn't reraise the flop or raise the turn. He played a JJ overpair hand in simliar fashion later on.

Honestly, I don't think this guy would think to exploit the fact that I am frustrated and ready to fold especially since the old lady is in there too. I completely expected her to call the last bet but I think she folded because I seemed sure that he or she had KJ and she didn't want to look dumb by calling. I think that the vast majority of the players at foxwoods would not 3-bet there without a straight or a set and a set doesn't seem too likely. If the SB took all of this into account and 3-bet with god knows what and expected both of us to fold, then... he is one smart man.

I was worried when that A came on the river and was going to bet and call a raise. Checking may have been better.

Thanks for the comments.

Re: Foxwoods 10/20
 

[ QUOTE ]
As usual, I'm not sure what you're trying to say.


[/ QUOTE ]


Amusingly enough, he's one of the 2+2 posters I'd like to see get a book deal from Mason and David...

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com

Re: Foxwoods 10/20
 

[ QUOTE ]


long as that SB is in there, you will lose. you can't beat that guy.


[/ QUOTE ]

why not? Could you give some reasoning? for some of us, these things aren't inherently obvious.

Re: Foxwoods 10/20
 

Careful here.. This hand is a mild disaster at best. Definitely raise pre-flop and do your best to win the pot from there on. Betting straight out like that on each street does very little and you let yourself get outplayed there on the river. Checking on the BB and betting each street isn't an awfully strong move I could expect to be attacked on the river by quite a range of AX hands some not even holding two pair so call I must since I'm definitely going to be good enough of the time.

I'd suggest a heart to heart here. The play here seems typical to me of someone that isn't quite ready for the level of play or limit as even though his depicted read clearly depicts a pre-flop raise he checks and then he hits the flop and just bets out in a rather non-sophisticated mannerism later giving his opponents too much on the river forfeiting a pot. I don't mean to knock you or anything but think about what happened in this pot and realize its time to hit the books or do something. This is a basic situation...

Re: Foxwoods 10/20
 

Like I said, I was not playing well and I agree the hand was misplayed.

However, this was not a sophisticated or difficult game. I highly doubt that under normal circumstances, any of these players would bluff 3-bet a river straight. The ATo raise, I understand and I figured her for either that or KJ. I'm only questioning my fold here because the 3-better was aware that I was afraid of KJ.