Party 3/6: Flopping TP with A6s
 

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed)

Fairly loose game. UTG is a "tries-to-be-tricky" fish who will play any ace or any two-suited, will limp with AKo/KQs, and will c/r a single-suit flop HU with low garbage cards, and then continue betting the turn and river. CO is a "floater" who plays any ace and coldcalls liberally. No solid read on the SB or Button.

Preflop: chesspain is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, chesspain calls, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, chesspain calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (11 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, UTG calls, chesspain???

What should my plan be from this point?

Re: Party 3/6: Flopping TP with A6s
 

Under the (probably misunderstood) influence of SSHE, how about a fold here? You *may* have best hand if SB raised with a pocket pair other than Aces, but the board is sliding away from you with those clubs.

Re: Party 3/6: Flopping TP with A6s
 

My SOP here is raise, fold the turn unimproved if 3 bet. After a raise from the SB and 3bet I don't think there is any plausible hand besides a big ace, especially considering the passivity and predictability of 3/6.

Re: Party 3/6: Flopping TP with A6s
 

Where does it say to fold in SSH? I'm looking through the "top pair" section but can't find anything.

Re: Party 3/6: Flopping TP with A6s
 

See p. 118 - A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on a flop of A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]: "This is a poor hand," etc. The text doesn't advise you to fold, but puts things in pretty grim terms.

Admittedly chesspain's flop isn't quite as bad, but even so, it's not great. A huge pot hasn't been built yet, so why not get out while it's cheap?

Re: Party 3/6: Flopping TP with A6s
 

I agree i usually raise in these situations unless against a weakie that has bet

Re: Party 3/6: Flopping TP with A6s
 

I would call the flop and see what develops on the turn. If a non-club hits I would probably raise even if SB bets and UTG calls.

EDIT: Oops. I didn't see SB raised preflop. I just call down the whole way, bet if checked to.

-Michael

Re: Party 3/6: Flopping TP with A6s
 

The flop in this is a lot better than not "quite as bad." There are no possible straight draws and no connecting cards that make two pair hands. The only draw that is out is clubs, and we can always see when those cards hit the board. Chess often has the best hand here, and there really isn't any reason to assume anyone has a club draw.

-Michael

Results
 

Of the few reponses so far, there is one vote for a fold, two for raise, and one for call down...not exactly a consensus [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

I actually folded, which wasn't an easy decision, especially since the pot is already borderline-big, at least according to Ed's criteria. However, with both an SB raiser and at least two players in this pot who were known "any ace" players, I didn't like my chances of being able to come out of this on top, especially given my weak kicker and lack of any other draws.

Part of the problem with a hand like this is I can't even tell whether calling or raising is better if I do decide to play on, especially since there are no str8 draws to try to force out. Raising would only seem to make sense if: I assume that neither SB nor UTG has an ace, and I can force a better ace or some second or third pair behind me to fold...which would have seemed like quite the parlay. On the other hand, calling down vs. four other players with such a weak kicker just seemed fishy.

Feel free to flame away.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raising would only seem to make sense if: I assume that neither SB nor UTG has an ace, and I can force a better ace or some second or third pair behind me to fold...

[/ QUOTE ]

... and a single big club.