Tricky turn decision (?)
 

This is a hand played at PartyPoker $10/20 (6 max) table the other day.
I am "Charlie", sitting UTG. (I've named the players from A to F starting at small blind)

The player of most interest is Bravo. I had an impression of him beeing a loose player. Calling a lot,
raising little.

This is the action up to the turn:

Alpha posts small blind [$5].
Bravo posts big blind [$10].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Charlie [ Ad Td ]
Charlie raises [$20].
Delta calls [$20].
Echo folds.
Foxtrot calls [$20].
Alpha folds.
Bravo calls [$10].

** Dealing Flop ** [ 6h, 9c, Ts ]
Bravo checks.
Charlie bets [$10].
Delta raises [$20].
Foxtrot folds.
Bravo raises [$30].
Charlie raises [$30].
Delta calls [$20].
Bravo calls [$10].

** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
Bravo checks.
Charlie bets [$20].
Delta calls [$20].
Bravo raises [$40].

It is now my turn to act.
Should I call down or fold before it's too late?
What do you think he's got?

What I did and what he had will be posted here after I've got a couple of replies.

Re: Tricky turn decision (?)
 

I'm not familiar with the Party 10/20 6-max game, but I'll give a shot.

I think Bravo has 66/99/87s. If he's loose passive, this is a clear fold on the turn.

Re: Tricky turn decision (?)
 

Without a read at a limit where average play is halfway skilled, I'd probably figure that my hand is worse than at least one person's and get out - that person isn't leaving the hand for anything, so you aren't likely to make the best fold even if you have second best. You may or may not be drawing dead but that possibility of not being able to improve to best would clinch the deal

Re: Tricky turn decision (?)
 

This is what happened:

Charlie folds.
Delta calls [$20].

** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
Bravo bets [$20].
Delta folds.
Bravo shows [ Tc, 8d ] a pair of tens.
Bravo wins $323 from the main pot with a pair of tens.

Ok I may have mislead you with my read on this guy, as I probably mislead myself. I had sat with this guy for an hour, so I felt pretty confident folding. Either he's more cunning than I thought, or he went on tilt at a profitable moment - OR I should work on my judgment of peoples play.. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I guess this case comes up so rare (the combination of the hand and the wrong read) that a fold here would be correct.

Still, in a somewhat similar hand discussion here at the board, there are some strongly arguing that a fold for a single raise on the turn is wrong after having put so much money in the pot early, almost no matter what hand.

Re: Tricky turn decision (?)
 

I don't think that you would lose in the long term never folding top pair for one bet in these games.

RH

Re: Tricky turn decision (?)
 

I call down here. The pot is huge and you have top pair top kicker. You will often be shown a set a lot, but sometimes it is two pair which you will beat on the river. Occasionally it will be an overplayed top pair weaker kicker. Either way you have to call down and expect to be beaten.

Edit: ah, read your results. Yes that is why you have to call down.

-rory

Re: Tricky turn decision (?)
 

I think you should call. The pot is too large at this point. When you raise btf what does bravo think you have? He likely has 2-pair, set, or straight. When you cap the flop he might start thinking set of T's. When he cr's the turn, you've got to know he has you at the moment. You're drawing dead to a set, straight or 2-pair with a T. I think you should call it down after capping the flop ... you don't want other players at the table to start taking shots at you. If you get the T or an A on the river you might win too. He's cr'd twice ... too bad he didn't get a chance to do the capping on the flop - you could have dumped on his cap. I still think you have to make a image play and give up another bet or two to save image.

Re: Tricky turn decision (?)
 

Fold. Unless these are maniacs, there's a possibility you're drawing dead against two other players. Bravo (BB) likely has 78 or hit his set on the flop. Delta looks like he has maybe T9, nice draw with two overcards QJs or he may have even hit a set on the flop.

By the tone of the post I'm guessing you stayed in, and won the hand against a pair of tens with a worse kicker, but I think you've got to fold top pair, top kicker in this situation (especially since there's a straight on board and a lot of over cards that can come and beat you) against two other players jamming it up.