help settle the debate
 

its a no-limit home game, tournament. £40 buy-in, no rebuys, my friend is usually solid, so am I... the other 8 are fishy! very fishy...any two can win etc. 1st and 2nd pays out, blinds go up every 25 minutes.

2nd hand of the night, my friend (hero) is dealt 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB

he raises 20 chips (1/4 of stack) and it is folded to button who calls.

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

hero raises 20 chips

button calls

Turn 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

hero raises 20 chips
button calls

river 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

hero checks
button checks
button shows Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

now my argument is that the raise on the flop was weak... and the turn raise was unjustified and he deserved to lose.

my friend insists he played it right against someone he knows to be a bad player.

any thoughts?

Re: help settle the debate
 

mistake #1, raising 1/4 of your stack with 77 on the 2nd hand of the night.

mistake #2, continuing to bet bet bet


by the way, don't you hate when people say raise but they mean bet? eh. i do.

Re: help settle the debate
 

What were the blinds?

Raising a fourth of your stack preflop in a loose game with a medium pair isn't ideal.

Re: help settle the debate
 

I think your friend is off his nut. 25% of his stack must have been 10x the BB. That's an insane bet on the 2nd hand with a medium PP. The other guy was just as insane to call given his holding but you said everyone else was bad. The 2nd and 3rd bets were also pretty lame. ('Lame' is as polite as I get)

It doesn't matter how bad your opponents are there is no justification for this play. As a matter of fact the worse the opponents, the less the justification. You can't bluff really bad players.

Re: help settle the debate
 

I forgot to say it....

misplayed on every street.

Re: help settle the debate
 

because a fishy player can't be dealt a Q, a J, a T, a 9, or an 8...well done throwing away 3/4 of his stack with crap.

Re: help settle the debate
 

[ QUOTE ]
by the way, don't you hate when people say raise but they mean bet? eh. i do.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bet is at 0 and you're making it 1 which is.....raising the bet.

Re: help settle the debate
 

your friend played this hand terrible and I think you are right.

Pat

Re: help settle the debate
 

I'm confused about the pf action. Did the button limp before it got to the BB? Raise? I'll assume he limped.
So, regarding your friend's play:

pf raise: terrible. check here and play for a set, it's _early_.

flop bet: well...he's already put in a quarter of his stack. If he's going to bet he should push here, but he can't imagine he's ahead in the hand. If he's against any Q, T, or 9, or AJ, or AK, or KJ, or J8, or 88, or....yea. he's screwed. And "fishy" people are likely to call with any of the above. So. terrible. There are so few hands the opponent can have here that hero wants to see...66, 8x with x<7, etc.

turn bet: Hero's now dead to a tie against any J, and has a 6-outer against any Q, T, 9, or 8. And he makes a bet that has _zero_ chance of getting rid of the aforementioned fish. Of course by now all-in is just under 1/2-pot, so he's in trouble regardless.

If your friend's less fishy than the rest of the table, I guess he should check-fold the turn and hope to get his chips back later. This hand is pretty awful [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]