I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

Here's a river call I'm not sure I should have made.

My opponent in the hand would be capable of raising a lot of things on the flop, including any pair or draw. By the time the river came around, I was a little sick to my stomach, but I called anyway.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (4 handed)

Preflop: lil' is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, Button folds, SB completes, <font color="CC3333">lil' raises</font>, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">lil' bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, lil' calls.

Turn: (4 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, lil' calls.

River: (6 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, lil' calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Re: I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

Why not 3-bet the flop and see what happens?

Re: I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

Why not 3-bet the flop

This sounds lame, but I almost always do just that in this spot. Not sure why I didn't here. I just felt there was a decent chance he had the king. This guy had been waiting a long time to nail me and was starting to pick his spots. His pre-flop completion was also highly unusual.

Re: I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

Ok, I just like to 3-bet in this spot because it makes it a lot easier to play. You are either way in front or way behind. When he calls your 3-bet, you also have a chance to check the turn (when he checks too of course) when a scare card comes or you still aren't sure about his hand. This way you get a cheaper showdown... I'm sure you know all this [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Because you didn't 3-bet you still don't know where you are so it makes it a lot more diffecult to play.

Guido

Re: I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

So if you 3-bet and is called, do you usually check behind on the turn with Q's on a K-high board, and call the river if he bets into you? If he check the river?
I assume we're prepared to check the turn in this case since
1: there's a reasonable chance we're behind
2: we want to go to showdown but because of (1) we want to do it cheap
3: we don't fear all that many overcards
Anything else?

What if we had held T's instead?

Re: I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

Yes you said most of them. When the turn is a spade I would bet out again because we don't have to fold to a check-raise because if the Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. It's very player dependant though. A lot of the time players check-raise with anything of the flop so it really doesn't mean he has top pair. That's something I've learned from shorthanded games.

Guido

Re: I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

Yes, everything you have said is quite true. I get to squirm because I did not three bet the flop, regardless of the reasons.

Serves me right.

Re: I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

I dunno about anyone else but I almost never 3 bet the flop here in this situation, because I'm not comfortable folding on the turn if the flop is capped, and it often is. However I almost always raise the turn here when the ace hits (after just calling the flop raise) and taking the free showdown assuming he just calls. I prefer this line over spazzing on the flop.

Re: I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not comfortable folding on the turn if the flop is capped, and it often is.

[/ QUOTE ]
When it is capped, you're most of the time behind. And I disagree that that happens often. When it does he has a King (or better). They aren't that crazy to cap a PFR with less than that.

[ QUOTE ]
However I almost always raise the turn here when the ace hits

[/ QUOTE ]
And how often is that going to happen? I understand that you are talking about this hand but that's not a good reason not to 3-bet the flop. What do you do when the turn isn't an ace? Call down? It costs you a SB more and you have no idea where you are. I think 3-betting the flop is clearly the best line.

Guido

Re: I\'m calling this down, even if it kills me!!!
 

[ QUOTE ]
When it does he has a King (or better). They aren't that crazy to cap a PFR with less than that

[/ QUOTE ]

i've seen some reasonable players myself included who will cap a flush draw on the flop - i do it commonly if i have position

stripsqueez - chickenhawk