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-   -   Bubble Play with KK (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=407841)

JeanieJ 12-30-2005 07:06 PM

Re: Bubble Play with KK
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious as to what makes you feel like this is not a cut & dried situation? I agree that this is a pretty standard push. Sure we want CO coming along. Depending on the type of player he is I think that a push accomplishes this just as much as any other raise so I'd rather just get them in now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. The only thing that should be going through your mind right now is how to get your chips in the middle. If he does have aces, well then that's very unlucky for you. We all lose on the bubble from time to time.

Standard Push IMO.

ansky451 12-30-2005 07:14 PM

Re: Bubble Play with KK
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Push

[/ QUOTE ]

If the situation were so cut & dried, I wouldn't have posted. If anyone's answer is "push", please give your reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's very cut and dried.

You have 12 big blinds.
Theres a limper.
Theres a raiser.
You have the second best hand in hold'em.

Show me where the uncut and wet part is.

benneh 12-30-2005 07:31 PM

Re: Bubble Play with KK
 
I'm sorry for not responding quicker, but this actually IS rather standard and boring. I'm sorry that you got bad beat, or ran into aces, or that everyone folded to your all in raise. I'm sure one of these had to happen, or I can't imagine why you would bother posting this as a hand that you thought oh so long and hard about. Just know that a push is the best play here 100 times out of 100 times and find some more interesting hands from the tournament and post them instead.

Exitonly 12-30-2005 08:16 PM

Re: Bubble Play with KK
 
this thread caused me to find this:

Awesome

i'm going to be a smartter person in no time.

(i thought it was cut and dry. not cut and dried. ::the more you know NBC clip::)

stinkysam 12-30-2005 08:26 PM

Re: Bubble Play with KK
 
You mean me don't get "French Benefits"?

12-30-2005 09:05 PM

Results (with a little LC if permissable)
 
Of course I pushed. BUT - I though about it. My good read on the TAG was AA-QQ and AK. UTG+1 folded & the TAG called. Obviously he showed AA by my earlier comments.

Here's the thing - I knew he had it. It was either AA or QQ since I held Kings. I thought that my best chance to win was to fold or hope I was wrong.

I'm certainly not complaining and it isn't a bad beat or sour grapes - my only thought when seeing KK was to get the max chips in the pot. The TAG's raise caused me to stop playing on "KK auto-pilot" and think.

When DO you trust that voice in your head?

adanthar 12-30-2005 09:24 PM

Re: Results (with a little LC if permissable)
 
[ QUOTE ]

Here's the thing - I knew he had it. It was either AA or QQ since I held Kings.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

davidross 12-30-2005 10:14 PM

Re: Results (with a little LC if permissable)
 
I just don't see how you can make that read. You said the guy is good and UTG will fold to a re-raise. He has the guy covered and it would seem to me that he could have anything here.

Having said that, I may be the only person here who wouldn't roast you for folding. go with your read no matter what. Even fold aces here if you want, you'll make the money, and you might get another big hand later. Pretend you went to the bathroom and missed it or misclicked and folded. You haven't lost anything but an opportunity.

benneh 12-30-2005 10:31 PM

Re: Results (with a little LC if permissable)
 
[ QUOTE ]


When DO you trust that voice in your head?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I've got a ginormous stack that can afford folding, not an M of 8. And when I have more evidence than "limper, tight player raised weakly." There's gona have to be a lot more raising for entire chipstacks before I think about folding the second best hand in hold 'em. Even if I know that he HAS to have AA, QQ, or AK (which you're a favorite against).

whiskeytown 12-31-2005 12:28 AM

Re: Bubble Play with KK - and alternate play?
 
this and Davidross's reply reminded me of a hand...

I was BB with 93 or something and flopped top pair - turn comes with an overcard and my opponent bets -

and I was in the tank for 15 seconds...and then I said "wait a sec...this is my BB - I don't give a rats ass if I fold top pair with no kicker or not - I don't WANT this hand and I'm lucky I got any part of the flop and probably not that lucky at all."

If you fold, no one will know that you're tight and laid down a monster - but in this spot, I don't see how I could get away from it - I'd be all in so fast I might get a fold just out of fear - LOL.

I've never had a read on anyone as so TAG that I could lay down KK that easily.

What's everyone's opinion on just smoothcalling the raise and pushing all in on any flop that doesn't have an A? Sometimes I do this near the bubble - just cause everyone's playing an A - I think this is wrong...but at the same time, if I'm seeing AK, it's easier to play it this way and knock them out post flop then letting them see all 5 cards, which they would do if we both got allin preflop.

I figure I'm allin preflop or postflop, I'm gonna get a caller - but my chances of getting a muck post flop are much greater if that flop comes and misses - if he hits, well, he probably would have hit if I had gone allin preflop anyways...

I sorta like playing that way - a lot of players will shrug and call an all-in on a draw with hands like A7 suited but a lot fewer do it post flop after they don't get their A or two spades.

RB


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